The Official "Ask the Artisan" Community Topic

[Herb_Master]

Do any of our artisans make or contemplate making Fair Cups (aka Justice Cups or Small Pitchers)

I think a lot of our teaware topics on Tea Chat are driven by our Green Tea community where the pitcher is not so important, but with all the wonderful Chawan and more - inspired by Green Tea and Japanese culture - I am jealous that there is so little scope for the Gong Fu practitioner. There are a few Fair cups available, and the Sea Cucumber Sake Cups from Magokorodo/Seigan were sublime - but I keep searching for a little more magic to add to my Fair Cup collection.

I have a large collection of Yixing teapots and only about 4 Fair Cups. Some of my teapots empty perfectly into one or other of my fair cups, but with other teapots I feel I do not have the right size Fair cup to do the job aesthetically perfectly.

whilst noting that some artisans only make one-offs of their creations others are not adverse to making sets of small tea cups and tea bowls and sake cups.

what would really excite me is to be able to build up a collection of Fair cups and Oolong/Sake cups.

I have some 150 ml and 200 ml Fair cups and would really be looking for other volumes to fill the gaps.

Let us say - a 175 ml Fair cup and three 55 ml sake cups with the same sense of identity

Or a 190 ml Fair cup and three 60ml sake cups

Or a 110 ml Fair Cup with 2 50 ml Sake Cups

Alternatively forget the Sake cups a collection of three Fair Cups at 130 ml, 160 ml and 190 ml!

My current limitations mean that sometimes my tea strainer is sitting in the almost full Fair Cup with the level above the strainer, whilst the last few drops are emptied into the teapot - or else the Fair cup is so large that there is an excessive cooling effect on the liquor that charges the very last cup.

If I were drinking with 2 friends and we wanted to charge our 50ml cups twice each - then a teapot and fair cup of 300 ml would be needed but almost immediately as we commence on our first sip - the faircup is half empty allowing the liquor that will provide our 2nd cup to cool.

Note that the fair cup would be preheated.

Are there any particular clay bodies (with or without special internal or external glazing) that retain heat for longer?

Are there any aesthetically pleasing shapes to a pitcher that would present the most minimal air surface when the vessel is more or less half empty ?

Artistic effects are best left to the creator, but I would tend to want pale or near white interiors to allow best appreciation of the colour of the liquor!

[Geekgirl]

Interesting question. Personally, I use only glass faircups, I have 3 of varying shapes. It honestly had not occurred to me to use anything different, but now that you ask the question...

As far as cooling, and as long as you want to go with a custom faircup/pitcher, why not have a small "plate" made (little concave disk) that fits in the mouth of the pitcher between pours? I often use a very small cup (15ml or 30ml) set over the pitcher to retain a little of the heat. In fact you could double up your usage, by making the dish usable as the cha he (?).

[Chip]

OK, we have two questions running here. I would still like to hear more about Yohen and Reduction as posted before HerbMaster.

[Herb_Master]

Interesting question. Personally, I use only glass faircups, I have 3 of varying shapes. It honestly had not occurred to me to use anything different, but now that you ask the question...

I have porcelain fair cups [Bamboo motif, Goldfish motif] but want more interesting clay ones I sometimes use a 200ml Glass teapot over a candle warmer when drinking slowly in the garden

As far as cooling, and as long as you want to go with a custom faircup/pitcher, why not have a small "plate" made (little concave disk) that fits in the mouth of the pitcher between pours? I often use a very small cup (15ml or 30ml) set over the pitcher to retain a little of the heat. In fact you could double up your usage, by making the dish usable as the cha he (?).

Good ideas, if an Artisan made a fair cup with a decent shoulder half way down there could be a complimentary item resembling a teapot lid to perform the function!.



And when I am sated with fair Cups I will be looking to build a collection of Tea Strainers I only have 4 at the moment!

[Chip]

Interesting question. Personally, I use only glass faircups, I have 3 of varying shapes. It honestly had not occurred to me to use anything different, but now that you ask the question...

As far as cooling, and as long as you want to go with a custom faircup/pitcher, why not have a small "plate" made (little concave disk) that fits in the mouth of the pitcher between pours? I often use a very small cup (15ml or 30ml) set over the pitcher to retain a little of the heat. In fact you could double up your usage, by making the dish usable as the cha he (?).

+1 on every point actually. I currently use inexpesive glass creamers that come in various sizes of the same style. The glass is thicker which retains the heat and I usually stick a small cup over the opening to hold in more heat ... and aroma. Sometimes it is a cup that I am actually using to drink ... also an inexpensive Chinese porcelain cup.

[Petr Novák]

Dear Herb_Master,

I am presently working of fair cups and oolong cups- it is very interesting field of tea ware for me like a potter and it also fits to my drinking manners.

Here are some fair cups from older firings and I you are interested in to my style I can put some new pictures later on. Every comment is welcome- I would like to make progress by yours perceptions

fair cup.jpg (10.99 KiB) Viewed 5268 times

fair cups.jpg (13.55 KiB) Viewed 5268 times

And here is link to some of my tea cup for oolongs:http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=12296

[rjiwrth]

Do any of our artisans make or contemplate making Fair Cups (aka Justice Cups or Small Pitchers)

I think a lot of our teaware topics on Tea Chat are driven by our Green Tea community where the pitcher is not so important, but with all the wonderful Chawan and more - inspired by Green Tea and Japanese culture - I am jealous that there is so little scope for the Gong Fu practitioner. There are a few Fair cups available, and the Sea Cucumber Sake Cups from Magokorodo/Seigan were sublime - but I keep searching for a little more magic to add to my Fair Cup collection.

Herb Master,
I agree and good question. I have been using a beautiful shallow dish filled with the hottest water. I sit my fair cup in the water, which seems to keep the tea hot. I have used a larger bowl for two fair cups when I have company or have two seperate brews going. I would like to have a cool pitcher to do my yixings justice. I thought about Petr when you asked the question as I bet he can make something to your needs. Plus, his work is amazing.

[JBaymore]

OK, we have two questions running here. I would still like to hear more about Yohen and Reduction as posted before HerbMaster.

Chip,

The Bizen pieces you show there are done in a very specific way. I actually fire chamber 3 and 4 of my noborigama using this same technique. I have done much of this kind of work when working over in Japan.

Different kiln locales in Japan use different terminology to apply to effects. Sometimes one term is used for a certain thing in one localle...and the same exact term used in another place for a different effect.

In the Bizen tradition, this particular youhen effect (fire change) is caused by the introduction of wood charcoal on top of the wares after they have been taken to and held at top temperature for a period of time. This charcoal is not "briquettes"...real charcoal like that used for certain cooking operations in Japan... and similar to that used for Chanoyu.....but not the same "quality". This is done at a very high temperature..... just "off" of the peak the wares were fired to........ like maybe about 1200C. The charcoal of course starts to burn, stoking wood on the chamber ceases, and the chamber is then allowed to cool in this atmosphere. It causes significant localized reduction on the SURFACE of the high iron Bizen clay, creating flashings as well as some charcoal ash fused onto the surface of the wares. Sometimes the colors can approach irridescent reds...and also a lovely grey-blue. The swirling flame pattern around the bits of charcoal is sometimes quite evident.

This is an effect that I LOVE. Not to mention the process is pretty dramatic.

best,

.................john

[JBaymore]

Do any of our artisans make or contemplate making Fair Cups

Some of my cups are fair. Some are pretty good. Some are pretty bad.

Sorry... I could not resist that line.

best,

.................john

[rjiwrth]

OK, we have two questions running here. I would still like to hear more about Yohen and Reduction as posted before HerbMaster.

Chip,

The Bizen pieces you show there are done in a very specific way. I actually fire chamber 3 and 4 of my noborigama using this same technique. I have done much of this kind of work when working over in Japan.

John,
What about the kyusu in the post above - the Gyokko one? Would you describe it as yohen in some areas of Japan? I just want to make sure I'm calling it correctly since the seller indicated that's what it was. Just curious what you think.

[JBaymore]

rjiwrth,

Sorry but it is VERY hard to see that particular piece from the image there. From what I can see and the general description of the clay in the writing.... it looks like it likely is a form of youhen. Probably fired in a gas kiln though. Carbonacesous materials used to cause the localized reduction.

Sometimes for pieces that look like this.... coffee grounds are now used (kohi tanka).

best,

..............john

[Chip]

Sooo, a reduction piece can be Yohen, and a Yohen is a reduction piece, but not all reduction pieces are Yohen?

And the answer is a bit different wherever you go or depending on who you ask?

[David R.]

Hi,

I see Chip that you got this wonderful Bizen Kyusu from Magokorodo. I have a question about too about Bizen teaware.

It is said that wood firing technique has an effect on water, therefore on tea. I have a few bizen cups and a yuzamashi. Hidehisa told me to leave the water stay one night in a bizen cup before brewing tea and it would change the taste. I already notice a slight only when using these cups.

Do you see a change with your kyusu/cups Chip ?

Ginkgo told me it is partly because of the reduction (carbon dioxide) penetrating deep inside the pottery.

I am very curious about these effects if you have any info/comment on this.

++

[rjiwrth]

Sooo, a reduction piece can be Yohen, and a Yohen is a reduction piece, but not all reduction pieces are Yohen?

And the answer is a bit different wherever you go or depending on who you ask?

It's like working for the government! Believe me, I know about that one! Because I am truly OCD, I think I'm going to look for that book that Petr was mentioning. Maybe it's one of the questions where you actually need to be in the presence of the piece to tell for sure? Or, maybe it does not have just one answer? Everything you said, Mr. Chip!This is a good thread, Chip. Very interesting!

[JBaymore]

Sooo, a reduction piece can be Yohen, and a Yohen is a reduction piece, but not all reduction pieces are Yohen?

And the answer is a bit different wherever you go or depending on who you ask?

Chip,

I guess as a pure technically, every single piece that is fired is "youhen"........ changed by the fire. Because it went into the kiln as clay and emerged as ceramic. So it was changed by the fire.

Yes, a piece that has been reduced CAN exhibit youhen effects.....but it is also true that all reduction effects are not routinely considered youhen. No, all youhen does not only involve reduction.

Youhen in general (fire change) can be looked at as a broad category of kiln induced effects. Some involve reduction and some involve oxidation. Some are induced by fusing flyash. Some are induced by being burried in coals and ash. Some are induced by repetitive changes in atmosphere from strong oxidation to strong reduction. Some involve reduction during the up-cycle. Some involve reduiction during the cooling cycle. And so on.

If you live in a particular place in Japan and there is only ONE type of "fire change" that your kiln/village/region does, then you might refer to that particular effect simply as "youhen". It is "youhen" because that is THE youhen effect with which you are familiar. You don;t need a closer identification... because you are not differentiating more closely than that.

People from another location might have a different effect that they utilize that involves the impact of maipulation of the firing....... and they call THAT effect "youhen".

You can also probably say that using the broad term "youhen" is easier to use to communicate with people who would not be familiar with more subtle terms that people other than local potters might not know. A "catch all" term that is "close enough for government work", so to speak.

I know Kusakabe-san and Mark (have had the pleasure to work with Kusakabe-san a couple of times in Japan and exhibited in a three person show with Mark). Couple of great guys. That book is absolutely the BEST one stop referenece to Japanese wood firing approaches that is available. It is clearly written for potters.... but if you are serious about Japanese wood fired pottery...... it is a good primer in English for you on "what and how".

The section that breaks down the various sub-categories of youhen effects with photos is supurb. But you have to remember that this can tend to get into the supposed category of Eskimos and words for "snow" . The average person just wants to know it is snowing, not that currently the type that is falling is grauple.

best,

.................john