Small (or moderately) sized yixing pots?

[tst]

Managed to snake a copy a few months back for a very agreeable price. My only concern is whether this is an authentic copy or not

[chrl42]

Managed to snake a copy a few months back for a very agreeable price. My only concern is whether this is an authentic copy or not

That Gaiwan looks 70~80s Jingdezhen exportation, looks really nice!

[kyarazen]

Managed to snake a copy a few months back for a very agreeable price. My only concern is whether this is an authentic copy or not

perhaps an "expert" with digital x-ray and spectrometric vision can quickly verify your book quickly

these books used to go for fifty or sixty dollars a copy, no idea how it shot up to that crazy price on amazon. whether authentic or not, the text and the images within's more important than the physical book

there's a strange allergy of snobs to pots made with the assistance of moulds, yet KS Lo mentioned explicitely in this book that gong-chun and shi-dabin used moulds. i discussed this with a few taiwanese, they think that rejecting mould usage is pretty stupid, since the pot is essentially handmade still, with the clay hammered, processed, treated and delicatedly pressed and smoothed within the mould itself. they compared it to having a high speed potter's wheel that allowed any ceramic maker to achieve nice rounds/cylindricals. since yixing cannot be thrown, the wheel is not very useful, and moulding is another option.

in our discussion it seems that the only time moulding should be regarded as bad, is when it is used for "guan-jiang" methods, which would also mean that the clay is not that of original yixing either.

[chrl42]

Managed to snake a copy a few months back for a very agreeable price. My only concern is whether this is an authentic copy or not

perhaps an "expert" with digital x-ray and spectrometric vision can quickly verify your book quickly

these books used to go for fifty or sixty dollars a copy, no idea how it shot up to that crazy price on amazon. whether authentic or not, the text and the images within's more important than the physical book

there's a strange allergy of snobs to pots made with the assistance of moulds, yet KS Lo mentioned explicitely in this book that gong-chun and shi-dabin used moulds. i discussed this with a few taiwanese, they think that rejecting mould usage is pretty stupid, since the pot is essentially handmade still, with the clay hammered, processed, treated and delicatedly pressed and smoothed within the mould itself. they compared it to having a high speed potter's wheel that allowed any ceramic maker to achieve nice rounds/cylindricals. since yixing cannot be thrown, the wheel is not very useful, and moulding is another option.

in our discussion it seems that the only time moulding should be regarded as bad, is when it is used for "guan-jiang" methods, which would also mean that the clay is not that of original yixing either.

I don't know which Taiwanese you discussed with.

But hearing 'rejecting mould usage is stupid' is so far the stupidest opinion I've ever heard during my journey of using Yixings. (no offense).


It's same as saying, Li Chang-hong (mould using Grand Master) is exactly the same level as He Dao-hong.....and look at the prices and looks, Li's pots can't even dare to go on auctions often these days.

Gu Jing-zhou used some 20~30 tools to make Ti Bi handle teapot. And If he just knew how to use moulds...ha.

next time you could say,
Borrowing a 'Daigong' is the same as making themselves...and it goes on. I know I don't have to do this and thanks for your great effort for the history of Baochun....but that was how I felt at the moment.



Plus, on the history of mould-using. It's not something I can mention at my level. But I do know it can date back to Ming or Qing. But everyone's opinion's different on that. High-skilled potters interior can be just as clean as using mould. But on commercial pots, joint-lines are so no exception usually. So better the level they are, joint lines can be as blurring that I can confirm.

[the_economist]

Hi Chrls are you saying all pots made using the assistance of molds are bad pots? Only fully hand made pots are good?

[chrl42]

Hi Chrls are you saying all pots made using the assistance of molds are bad pots? Only fully hand made pots are good?

Of course not. But I do think hand-made pots are 'better pot' than mould-used ones.

[the_economist]

So you do not reject mold usage? It's ok to use molds right? Seems like you and Kyarazen and the Taiwanese guys agree then.

Kyarazen, by 'guan jiang' you mean slip cast pots?

To be clear -
Fully hand made from slabs would be like this Zhou Guizhen video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZU_PNKIEgQ

Half hand made using molds would be like this: http://www.tyg.cn/tyzsrumen/tyzsrm05.htm

And slip cast is liquefied clay that isn't zisha at all.

Just trying to keep things readable for new drinkers out there

[wert]

The "half handmade" process.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 930&type=1

The mould is simply just another tool. Less tools = "better"? What's a "better" pot? Does it brew better tea? It simply sells better.

This "fully handmade" thing is a major selling point in the chinese market. A mainlander would almost never failed to ask if it is fully handmade. But elsewhere.....

However, all these are my personal opinion and shouldn't be regarded as any more than such. The experts have higher considerations.

[the_economist]

Really nice pictures Wert, thanks for the share!

[kyarazen]

So you do not reject mold usage? It's ok to use molds right? Seems like you and Kyarazen and the Taiwanese guys agree then.

Kyarazen, by 'guan jiang' you mean slip cast pots?

To be clear -
Fully hand made from slabs would be like this Zhou Guizhen video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZU_PNKIEgQ

Half hand made using molds would be like this: http://www.tyg.cn/tyzsrumen/tyzsrm05.htm

And slip cast is liquefied clay that isn't zisha at all.

Just trying to keep things readable for new drinkers out there

hahaha! don't associate our opinions; we look for different things in the hobby, whilst others in mainland are looking for different "things" either.

yeap slip cast, and another shocking thing, some schools in wuxi on a school excursion were allowed to make "purple clay" items for themselves using a spinning wheel, which probably suggest the material they use isnt zi-sha either.

[kyarazen]

The "half handmade" process.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 930&type=1

The mould is simply just another tool. Less tools = "better"? What's a "better" pot? Does it brew better tea? It simply sells better.

This "fully handmade" thing is a major selling point in the chinese market. A mainlander would almost never failed to ask if it is fully handmade. But elsewhere.....

However, all there are my personal opinion and shouldn't be regarded as any more than such. The experts have higher considerations.

its all about bragging rights perhaps. there was a joke amongst a couple of high level chinese physicians on visit to this region. they were talking about tea and suddenly went on to teaware that was often received as gifts. There was a particular colleague with a huge ego that always wanted to "out-do" others, when someone drank tea out of factory pots, he would brag about drinking tea out of artisan ones and how it tasted better, it went on to artisan vs mingjia, mingjia vs qing, and ended up being qing vs ming, to which he said that the pinnacle of tea he had experienced was brewing it in a ming vessel from an excavation (ming dynasty eunuch tomb?). everyone laughed and asked him how the 尸水 tasted, or whether the tea had a 太监韵.

anyway here's an extract from ks lo's book. if his opinions are not worthy to be debated/considered, then i wonder whose opinions are

[Tead Off]

Well, that should be an eye opener for all of us. And, when it comes to 'join lines', it's anyone's guess if this signifies handmade or not.

[chrl42]

The "half handmade" process.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 930&type=1

The mould is simply just another tool. Less tools = "better"? What's a "better" pot? Does it brew better tea? It simply sells better.

This "fully handmade" thing is a major selling point in the chinese market. A mainlander would almost never failed to ask if it is fully handmade. But elsewhere.....

However, all there are my personal opinion and shouldn't be regarded as any more than such. The experts have higher considerations.

This is not to anger anyone. I have many more half hand-made pots (mostly Factory-1) than fully hand-made pots.

I agree that it's up to personal opinions, no offense.

[chrl42]

After re-reading what kyarazen's wrote,

there must be misunderstanding by words used.

'rejecting mould is stupid', at glance I thought the persons are half hand-made pots' enthusiasts, who bring down the quality of hand-making.

But re-reading somewhat makes me think, 'mould-using can be regarded as another traditional type of Yixing pottery'....which is obviously true. Even Gu Jing-zhou said that.

Sorry for my bad English It's not bragging matter, I am not even close that level, really nor the pots I own. Let's have tea..

[Teaism]

Teawares is just an accessories and we should persue what we like, understand and can afford. It is an endless abyss into uncertainty. History may not be fact and facts may not be history. Sometimes history is determined by the loud, not by facts. Take a look at how bad the condition the East was like the last hundred years and suddenly all the ancient pot survived those conditions. Suddenly there are so much history on Yixing teapot. Something don't really tally.

Whatever depth we sank into, we must not forget that the ultimate aim is to come up with one perfect cup of tea. The rest are really too noisy.

Sorry for the reality check, I say this is a remind myself too.

Tread cautiously my friends. Have a great day!

Cheers!