yumz! would love to have another piece
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
this is a lovely piece of 30-40s shuiping pot courtesy of Huang Guo Yao (Taiwan)
yumz! would love to have another piece
yumz! would love to have another piece
May 30th, '15, 22:33
Posts: 749
Joined: May 2nd, '10, 02:03
Location: Shaker Heights, Ohio USA
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
Lovely tea session/party with a local chap also here on TeaChat. We spent two hours drinking water from all sorts of vessels!
He brought over his factory 1 collection. It was quite nice to hold and inspect many (+-20 between us) pots. We spoke many times of Kryarazen and the tips gleaned from him here on the forum. We are so lucky to have so many avid tea friends willing to share their experience!
Images may be seen here:
https://instagram.com/p/3USLWFPV5l/
He brought over his factory 1 collection. It was quite nice to hold and inspect many (+-20 between us) pots. We spoke many times of Kryarazen and the tips gleaned from him here on the forum. We are so lucky to have so many avid tea friends willing to share their experience!
Images may be seen here:
https://instagram.com/p/3USLWFPV5l/
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
hmmm..... haha! i hope i wasnt seen to be notorious. a couple of friends chided me for "posting" too much online, especially on the pots, as they think showing or sharing too much will end up having more fakes created.BioHorn wrote:Lovely tea session/party with a local chap also here on TeaChat. We spent two hours drinking water from all sorts of vessels!
He brought over his factory 1 collection. It was quite nice to hold and inspect many (+-20 between us) pots. We spoke many times of Kryarazen and the tips gleaned from him here on the forum. We are so lucky to have so many avid tea friends willing to share their experience!
Images may be seen here:
https://instagram.com/p/3USLWFPV5l/
but seriously, if anyone were to want to fake pots, teachat's probably one of the last places they will look for resources. the real items can be found in taiwan, china, in books etc, why the need to seek out an english website?
Jun 4th, '15, 05:31
Posts: 760
Joined: Aug 1st, '12, 08:20
Location: not anymore Bangkok, not really arrived in Germany
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
kyarazen wrote:
hmmm..... haha! i hope i wasnt seen to be notorious. a couple of friends chided me for "posting" too much online, especially on the pots, as they think showing or sharing too much will end up having more fakes created.
but seriously, if anyone were to want to fake pots, teachat's probably one of the last places they will look for resources. the real items can be found in taiwan, china, in books etc, why the need to seek out an english website?
Typical social media paranoia. Indeed - why need to go to an english language webforum to get inspiration for fake pots, when plenty of models are available on Chinese language auction sites, books, etc?
I am very grateful for this thread - very educational, and lovely pots posted.
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
woohoo!
the editor and author of 早期壶事件 has joined teachat here!
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20763
and if you have Factory 1 shuiping pots in doubt, feel free to join his facebook group and post there, or even post it in his thread on teachat for advice!
the editor and author of 早期壶事件 has joined teachat here!
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20763
and if you have Factory 1 shuiping pots in doubt, feel free to join his facebook group and post there, or even post it in his thread on teachat for advice!
Re:
there are other experts on the subjectbonescwa wrote:What about supposedly "Factory 1" non-shuiping pots?
like 小壶兄,标准壶 etcthey are finalizing the book on this subject and had made countless trips to yixing to meet the original craftsmans, artisans. apparently the molds used and the seals etc many are still in existence!
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
Woohoo! Now we have two in-house expert. Thank you Sir for sharing. Woohoo!kyarazen wrote:woohoo!
the editor and author of 早期壶事件 has joined teachat here!
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=20763
and if you have Factory 1 shuiping pots in doubt, feel free to join his facebook group and post there, or even post it in his thread on teachat for advice!
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
just for sharing... yixing pot lovers should visit this youtube channel and listen to the lectures! extremely objective and really proper "考古" and research. especially the lectures from huang jian liang on mengchen and zhuni is excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFPAZC ... cvtrj3ZkCg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFPAZC ... cvtrj3ZkCg
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
Courtesy of Biao Zhun Hu from taiwan, a lovely rare set of xian-piaos! deeply admire his collections and the quality/focus of what he does.
mostly early 60s and including one slightly before that i think
the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
mostly early 60s and including one slightly before that i think
the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
Jun 21st, '15, 14:32
Posts: 1144
Joined: Jul 10th, '13, 01:38
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Japan.
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
I found this shape to be quite wonderful even though with a rather slow pour (the size I owned was 90/100 ml)!kyarazen wrote:the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
I think this shape is quite popular in Taiwan..pretty fit for their preference for Gaoshan Oolong, although my favorite 5-style shape gotta be RoubianWilliam wrote:I found this shape to be quite wonderful even though with a rather slow pour (the size I owned was 90/100 ml)!kyarazen wrote:the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
interested to let it go at a nice price if its a hongni?William wrote:I found this shape to be quite wonderful even though with a rather slow pour (the size I owned was 90/100 ml)!kyarazen wrote:the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
~~~Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
if anyone follows Zao Qi Hu Shi Dian's group on facebook, Dr Lu had been writing posts from time to time with decent food for thought, but in chinese in case anyone who hasnt had facebook here and can read chinese here's post number 10 :
1. Are there "Non-Factory 1" Pots in the 60s or Seventies?
Many collectors may have come across such stories --> , i.e. this pot was made from clay that was secretly smuggled out from the factory and made by the craftsman at his own home, that is why the shape is different but the clay is the same!
but the truth is, in the 60s and 70s, such things are not possible. that is because of the cultural revolution during this period, where no one talks about parental love, where everyone lives in run down environments that are in shambles, who would dare to steal clay to make pots and even run a private kiln? china back then was like north korea, do you think any north korean would dare to steal something from his factory to be brought home, and then build himself a kiln at home to fire pots without anyone else discovering?!
2) When did "Non Factory 1" Pots start?
Factory 2 was established in 1980s, factory 3, 4 were also established in the 80s. All the "Non F1" pot production generally started around the 80s. The earliest entry of Taiwanese people into Yixing was also in the 80s, the peak of Taiwanese "ordered" pot replicas was in the 90s, where many pots from the 60s, 70s and many Ming Jia were replicated. So if you had bought pots in the 90s, right now it should be over twenty to almost 30 years old, however this age does not mean the pot is "right". One still needs to look at clay, workmanship, shape, seal, firing and other special marks.
3) Does it mean that Non F1 pots are rubbish or are "chemical pots"?
of course not. Factory 2 was under the Xu brothers, there are also good products, the only thing is the fraction or amount of the total produce that is good. In actual fact, most of the time the clays used by F2 were not as good as F1. The same goes for other factories but occasionally there are excellent products that appear, but not in consistent nor large quantities. As such it wouldnt be fair to immediately generalize that all non f1 pots are "rubbish". As long as one pays a fair price to an authentic product to what it is valued, there is no problems at all!
The most worrisome are not the pots from F2,nor 3 etc, but those from the 90s era, where all sorts of strange factories, private workshops, using all sorts of chemical materials and replicating old zhuni pots. some of the prices of these pots are highly inflated, and one needs to learn how to screen/filter these pots out.
Lastly, both practical usage and collection can be combined, or to be treated as two separate matters. if one had bought some non F1 pots, just for usage it can be fine, as long as it is not chemical colored clays, no strange clay smells, good for brewing processes, that falls into the category of a good and useful pot, please continue to shower it with love.
But if you want to be a collector, then you have to do a lot more homework, to the best of your abilities, but even then, having green label pots are good enough already, if one has more financial capabilities, one can consider to pursue higher and older goods, because the best of the early generation pots were made in the 60s and 70s, and they hold better collection value.
in case anyone who hasnt had facebook here and can read chinese here's post number 10 : and if you dont read chinese, here is my english translation of it :早期壺入門之十：「廠外壺」的問與答
1.60及70有廠外壺嗎？
許多壺友也許會聽到這樣的故事，這把壺是當年陶工偷偷把廠內的土拿出來在家自己做的（私窯），所以壺的外型雖然不一樣，但土是一樣的。事實上，如果是60及70年代，這是不可能的。因為60及70年代中國正在文化大革命，在那種不愛爸爸不愛媽媽大家都住人民公社破四舊的環境下，誰敢偷土回去做壺？還要用私窯燒？這樣說好了，當時的中國環境就像現在的「北韓」，請問現在的北韓人民有可能從公家偷東西回家，然後建一個窯自己燒，然後都沒有人發現？這樣想大家答案就清楚了。
2.廠外壺從何時開始？
二廠的設立是1980年，三廠及四廠也都是在80年代設立，所以所有的廠外壺其實大約也都是自80年代之後才開始有的。而最早進人宜興的台灣人也是大約始於1980年代，台灣人的訂製壺（仿壺）高峰期則是1990年代，當年仿的對像主要是60及70年代及名家壺為最多。所以若是當年（1990年代）買到訂製壺，現在也有二、三十年了，故不代表二、三十年前買的壺就一定對哦，還是要看土、工、型、款、窯等特徵。
3.廠外就一定是爛壺或化工壺嗎？
當然也不是，二廠是由徐秀棠及徐漢棠兄弟所領軍，故好作品當然也是有，只是比例問題。不過平均而言，二廠的用土及作工確實不如一廠是事實。至於三廠及其它小廠，一樣也是偶有佳作出現，故應該就壺論壺。只要以合理的價格買到正確的東西其實是沒有問題的。
最令人擔心的，不是二廠或三廠，而是90年代之後許多亂七八糟的不知名廠及私人工作室，許多化料壺及仿古朱泥壺都是在這時期出現，有些也開價不斐，大家還是要學會分辨。
最後，小弟要補充一下，使用與收藏可以是一件事，也可以是兩件事，如果之前有買到廠外壺，如果是單純使用，只要不是化工壺，土胎沒有異味，泡起來順手，就是可以用好壺，請繼續愛它。
如果是要收藏，當然功課就要作多一點，量力而為，但綠標期的有就好了，有能力可以考慮向上一點，因為早期壺的精品是在60及70，那會比較有收藏價值，給大家作參考。
1. Are there "Non-Factory 1" Pots in the 60s or Seventies?
Many collectors may have come across such stories --> , i.e. this pot was made from clay that was secretly smuggled out from the factory and made by the craftsman at his own home, that is why the shape is different but the clay is the same!
but the truth is, in the 60s and 70s, such things are not possible. that is because of the cultural revolution during this period, where no one talks about parental love, where everyone lives in run down environments that are in shambles, who would dare to steal clay to make pots and even run a private kiln? china back then was like north korea, do you think any north korean would dare to steal something from his factory to be brought home, and then build himself a kiln at home to fire pots without anyone else discovering?!
2) When did "Non Factory 1" Pots start?
Factory 2 was established in 1980s, factory 3, 4 were also established in the 80s. All the "Non F1" pot production generally started around the 80s. The earliest entry of Taiwanese people into Yixing was also in the 80s, the peak of Taiwanese "ordered" pot replicas was in the 90s, where many pots from the 60s, 70s and many Ming Jia were replicated. So if you had bought pots in the 90s, right now it should be over twenty to almost 30 years old, however this age does not mean the pot is "right". One still needs to look at clay, workmanship, shape, seal, firing and other special marks.
3) Does it mean that Non F1 pots are rubbish or are "chemical pots"?
of course not. Factory 2 was under the Xu brothers, there are also good products, the only thing is the fraction or amount of the total produce that is good. In actual fact, most of the time the clays used by F2 were not as good as F1. The same goes for other factories but occasionally there are excellent products that appear, but not in consistent nor large quantities. As such it wouldnt be fair to immediately generalize that all non f1 pots are "rubbish". As long as one pays a fair price to an authentic product to what it is valued, there is no problems at all!
The most worrisome are not the pots from F2,nor 3 etc, but those from the 90s era, where all sorts of strange factories, private workshops, using all sorts of chemical materials and replicating old zhuni pots. some of the prices of these pots are highly inflated, and one needs to learn how to screen/filter these pots out.
Lastly, both practical usage and collection can be combined, or to be treated as two separate matters. if one had bought some non F1 pots, just for usage it can be fine, as long as it is not chemical colored clays, no strange clay smells, good for brewing processes, that falls into the category of a good and useful pot, please continue to shower it with love.
But if you want to be a collector, then you have to do a lot more homework, to the best of your abilities, but even then, having green label pots are good enough already, if one has more financial capabilities, one can consider to pursue higher and older goods, because the best of the early generation pots were made in the 60s and 70s, and they hold better collection value.
Jun 22nd, '15, 11:34
Posts: 1144
Joined: Jul 10th, '13, 01:38
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Japan.
Re: Not my F1 Yixing, Wished it Were!!
It has already found a new owner!kyarazen wrote:interested to let it go at a nice price if its a hongni?William wrote:I found this shape to be quite wonderful even though with a rather slow pour (the size I owned was 90/100 ml)!kyarazen wrote:the xianpiao of F1 came in 2 sizes, 6 cup at 90ml~100ml, and 10cup at 150ml+/-, and is one of the best shapes for brewing rolled oolongs in gongfu style. it gives height for expansion, retains a bit more heat than shuipings, and the lids on a lot of xianpiaos fit very well
