Opinions about Yixing pots wanted: Benefits vs. Price Point?

[tingjunkie]

Hey Folks,
First post. Nice to be on-board with such a knowledgeable community!

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wanted to know what you Yixing aficionados thought about whether or not an "entry level" pot will have any of the benefits that Yixing is famous for. In other words, if I was to spend $40 to $80 on a Yixing pot from Yunnan or Rishi (two companies which seem to be widely esteemed at this price point), and use the pot only for brewing similar oolongs, will I see/taste any of the wonderful effects Yixing is famous for when compared to a plain 'ol glazed clay or ceramic pot?

The reason I ask is this: From searching the forums here for info, I have noticed some common themes surrounding Yixing clay, one of which being the general belief that all the truly "good" clay was used up more or less by the 1960's. Another common belief (and common sense in general) would be that $120 - $150 should buy me a much nicer pot than I could get at Yunnan or Rishi.

I really enjoy oolongs, and am starting to get more into them, but my enameled Iwachu Tetsubin that I have been using seems to make them a bit flat tasting. If a $40 dollar Yixing pot wouldn't possess any of that famous "magic", I'd rather just get a Tokoname kyusu now, or save my money for the "real thing" perhaps one day down the line. On the other hand, if it would show me some of the benefits, I would like to make the relatively small investment as a first step into the Yixing world.

Of course I understand this is all subjective in the first place, but at the very least I figure it could spark some good debate. Thanks for your opinions!

[xuancheng]

If you want to buy an yixing pot now, I would suggest a zhuni from Yunnan sourcing. Most can probably be used for almost all oolongs. Some of the Zisha stuff can be rather stifling of aromas, brightness, some 'higher notes.'

As you are in NYC, I would suggest you meet some people and get your hands on a real fancy yixing pot and try it out before you start spending a lot of money. There are plenty of people with nice tea stuff in NYC. I personally think some clays are worth paying a little extra for, but I can understand people who don't think a fancy lump of mud is worth hundreds of dollars.

Yixing pots are also fun to play with. If you like the process of making the tea as much as the drinking, it could be worth it to buy a cheaper first Yixing just to mess around with.

[tingjunkie]

Thanks xuancheng. So I take it that you do think an entry level Yixing pot will have a noticeable effect on the taste of oolongs?

The Zhu ni pots do look nice. Does a Zhu ni clay kyusu ever show up in Yunnan's store? I prefer that style to the traditional pot- although in the end all I really care about is making great tea!

(Wow, there is as much Chinese in this post as English! I'm learning! )

[xuancheng]

He doesn't sell kyusu on Yunnan Sourcing.

If you want a kyusu, you should just get one. If you are embarrassed about using a Japanese pot for a Chinese tea, then just close the curtains. If you are not embarrassed, then you can post pictures of your kyusu with oolong in it here on Teachat to scandalize the traditionalists

There was just a thread on a shop called CD japan. User Victoria bought a couple of nice looking kyusu for very reasonable prices.

You shouldn't buy Yixing if it's not what you want.

[tingjunkie]

Ahhh. Always one step forward and two steps back when first learning about something incredibly specialized.

Here I was thinking I had done some half decent research into the topic only to find out I know nothing. Is there no such thing as a Yixing kyusu then? And what's the problem with oolong in a kyusu? Is it just that kyusu are generally larger and require more leaves to do gongfu style steeping? As I said before, my main goal is to get the right equipment to enjoy good oolong teas more. If it takes a pot shaped like a rubber duck in order to do it, then I'm ok with that.

At the very least, I know enough not to put my treasured Chocolate Mint tea in the Yixing if I get one!

[xuancheng]

Is there no such thing as a Yixing kyusu then?

not as such, no.

Yixing is a place name in Jiangsu province, China. They make a lot of teapots there.

Zisha is Chinese for purple clay. It is the catch all term for all the clays mined there. It is also a specific term for a purple colored clay.

Zhuni is a red clay, also from Yixing

Kyusu is Japanese, hence the impossibility of a Kyusu from Yixing. They do make side handled pots in Yixing, but they would not be called kyusu. They call them 'Hengba Hu' if you are curious. They also don't really look the same as the Japanese side handled pots.

And what's the problem with oolong in a kyusu?

I think the biggest danger is you might offend someone's sensibilities.

Lots of oolong lovers like me like tiny little Yixing pots filled with leaf. I have also used a larger Yixing pot and only used part of its capacity, but I prefer small pots. It may help to preserve the aromas a bit more, but I don't think there is a really huge difference. If you like a large kyusu, you could buy it and only use it at 1/2 or even 1/3 capacity and do oolong brewing.

I think the largest differences between Yixing and Japanese pots are going to be clay and firing temp. I have one expensive Yixing which I use for my expensive Yancha. I also have a bunch of cheaper yixing. I think in terms of cheaper Yixing, the Zhuni ones will be best for oolong, especially without much seasoning. Some other people will give you some advice too, when they wake up.

[swozt]

If only for the purpose of brewing tea, then yes, a US$30 - US$80 teapot will get you a good teapot for brewing tea. You might want to try ordering from Chen who is a member of this forum. Her dad is a Yixing teapot maker.

Getting from a reputable source is the most important as there are just too many fakes around and for a beginner, it is very hard to distinguish good yixing teapots from another, let alone the clay type.

Also, getting a good teapot will pay off in the longer run when you "groom" a teapot that returns the "love" to you in spades.

Go for the best you can afford and learn from that teapot. Happy buying and researching. The journey is long and satisfying, but not without some danger. EXCITING!!

[clareandromeda]

If you have your heart set on the kyusu shape you should get a banko kyusu. It is made from iron rich purple clay so it will "season" and improve taste as well. There are some here
http://www.artisticnippon.com/product/B ... index.html

Thats only if you want a kyusu.

[Rich Perry]

I have bought some very nice and not too expensive pots from Nada Cha, Skip4Tea, and the Tea Gallery. Tim has posted about the pot that he bought from Chen who posts under teaware artisans. He sounded pretty happy with it, and he knows a thing or two about pots. Good luck.

[TIM]

... Here I was thinking I had done some half decent research into the topic only to find out I know nothing. Is there no such thing as a Yixing kyusu then?...

Of course there is such a thing as Yixing Kyusu. A good part of yixing pots were made for the Japanese market thru out the 20th C. Specially in the 60s-80s. Most of them looks like a Shuiping with a side handle like a kyusu.

I think you can get something descent from $50-100 range for a Beginner's pot:
http://www.zishateapot.co.uk/lixing-tea ... -p-97.html

[tingjunkie]

Thank you xuancheng and others for taking the time to educate me. I really appreciate it! (I'm also glad to see the NY area is holding it down on this forum!)

It sounds like a entry level Yixing would be a good investment for me- allowing me to experience some benefits without breaking the bank. Yunnan sounds like a safe bet, but I've yet to check out Ms. Chen's store- that sounds promising as well. And hey, I'm only 28... if I really love it, there's always plenty of time to upgrade in the future. Keep the advice and opinions coming folks- I enjoy hearing the experiences of others who have gone down this road before me.

Now it's time to start researching Tokoname and Banko for my other tea needs! The fun and learning never end!

[Tead Off]

tingjunkie, for my money, nothing is better than yixing. And, zhuni clay tops the list of yixing clay for oolongs. But, modern zhuni is not the same as older zhuni. So, here rises the dilemma of what kind of pot to buy and how much can one afford. If you're already a confirmed tea addict, save your money and go for an older (80's or earlier) pot. If you don't start with the best, you will ultimately spend more money on pots that don't measure up over time than splurging for something that will give you pleasure and last a lifetime barring catastrophe. There are many people on this board who I'm sure have lots of pots sitting on shelves they never use because they found something better. Luckily, I've only a few like this but I had good advice from the beginning. You should be able to find something good at $200 or less with patient shopping. If you have no access to vendors in NY with old pots, sites like Nada, Dragon Tea, Houde, and, others, sell vintage Yixing pots. Ask questions and read as much as you can on the subject. And, as a last resort, (I don't mean that disparagingly) sites like Chen and Yunnan Sourcing say they have modern pots using old clay. Good luck.

[TIM]

Thank you xuancheng and others for taking the time to educate me. I really appreciate it! (I'm also glad to see the NY area is holding it down on this forum!)

It sounds like a entry level Yixing would be a good investment for me- allowing me to experience some benefits without breaking the bank. Yunnan sounds like a safe bet, but I've yet to check out Ms. Chen's store- that sounds promising as well. And hey, I'm only 28... if I really love it, there's always plenty of time to upgrade in the future. Keep the advice and opinions coming folks- I enjoy hearing the experiences of others who have gone down this road before me.

Now it's time to start researching Tokoname and Banko for my other tea needs! The fun and learning never end!

Glad that you are having fun! If you are in the City, I would make a call and visit the Tea Gallery. Their collection of 60-80s yixings are quite a feast:

http://www.theteagallery.blogspot.com/

Perhaps you will get a discount using the password: Toki

Here is a yixing kyusu:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wL0XP7aHogE/S ... tcpot1.jpg

[tingjunkie]

That's great wisdom Tead Off. If I knew I would someday be a true tea connoisseur I would follow that advice for sure.

One of my other hobbies is birdwatching. In the "birding" world there are "true birders"- folks who have seen thousands of different species, vacation in locations ideal for birding, and leave work and drive 60 miles away at the drop of a hat if they get a report of a rare bird in the vicinity. I'm not one of those! I'm what they call a "Dude" ...Someone who enjoys taking his binoculars with him when he goes on a hike, has only seen hundreds of different species, only knows a handful of bird calls, and still appreciates the gorgeous blue of a common, boring Blue Jay.

I think I am a "Dude" of the tea world as well! I have a great appreciation for fine teas, and I am learning more and developing my palette all the time, but I still love a big 'ol pot of cheap, blended, flavored, black tea! To be honest, I think it will be some years before I even deserve to own a $200 tea pot! But in the meantime, I know enough to know my 26 oz enameled Tetsubin just ain't doing it for my decent oolongs. At least you and others have helped me narrow my search to zhuni clay. That's a big first step!

Tim, thanks for the links! Surprisingly, that's the first time I've heard of the Tea Gallery. Looks fantastic. Have they set up new residence yet?

[t4texas]

You may also want to look at the "Da Hong Pao" Yixings at Yunnan Sourcing. I have one and it does great things for greener tgys. Have not tried anything else in mine, but others here have used them for other teas, if I recall correctly. And they are in your price range at about $55 on eBay.

Edited to add: Doing a search on the YSL eBay store, the only pot labeled as "zhu ni" on YSL right now that may use a clay that will do best for you is this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Zhu-Ni-Clay-Jade-Pi ... tsupported But I don't have any experience with it or know for sure what this clay is. Anyone have this one or any of the others?