The 12th infusion

[tea fish]

Hi all--

I have a question about later infusions. One of the things I love about oolong is the multiple infusions--the variation between them, the fact that there's always a second/third/fourth chance, etc.

I usually infuse a batch of leaves 5 or 6 times, partly because I only have so much time in the day. But it's also because by the time I've hit the 5th or 6th infusion, I feel like all I'm getting is nice smelling water. I buy decent quality oolongs (I've been drinking wuyis from Seven Cups lately, as some of you might know already). I figure that they must be good for at least 8 infusions.

So I'm wondering: are my later infusion expectations too high? Or am I not infusing for long enough? (I infuse for about 3 min by the 5th infusion.) I'm curious about what I can reasonably expect from a 5th or 6th infusion. They feel to me like nice, pale imitations of the second infusion, say, but not particularly interesting in themselves. I'm curious: is a high quality oolong as compelling on its 8th infusion as it was on its second? What does a good 8th or 12th infusion taste like? (Anybody got anecdotes about this...?) Are later infusions always kind of weak?

Basically I'm wondering if I need to change my tea expectations or my brewing (or buying) habits. Thanks in advance for your collective wisdom!

[AdamMY]

Well, I don't know so much about Oolongs, but I know from Puerh that after the frist 5-6 infusions, you basically pour the hot water in, and forget about it for a bit. And the trick is to try and forget about it for longer and longer and longer. I mean its not unheard of to do 10-20 minute infusions, and with aged teas to try and get some of the last goodness out of the leaves, an over night steep works quite well, after you have done as many infusions as you think you can get out of it.

[Herb_Master]

Like you, I rarely find the time, energy and stamina to go beyond, or at least far beyond 6 infusions.

But my 5th infusion is a lot less than 3 minutes, it may be down to the amount of leaf that you are using, compared to those whom miraculously report up to 30 infusions.

I use 8 grams to a 140ml pot, and go something like 12s, 10s, 15s, 22s, 30s.
This will be with pots that pour in about 10s and does not include the few seconds pouring the water, replacing the kettle etc.

I find that every tea is different, and behaves ever so slightly differently every time I brew it, so I adjust the timing parameters accordingly as a session develops, sometimes I do need to increase the infusion times more steeply, sometimes I lay off a little, sometimes if slightly distracted I just accept what happens.

If I brew with a lighter loading, I find that astringency will come in with longer initial infusions, with a heavier loading the brew seems full and flavourful with short steeps. I find occasionally when I bump up the time for a later infusion that bitterness will come, but if only to a low level then I find this enjoyable.

I have tried even heavier loadings, but not with the success that I can obtain on densely packed Wuyi Yan Cha, added to which the amount of tea swelling in the teapot can become a problem by the 4th brew.

My only concern with the loading I use (particularly late at night, with sleep beckoning) is that 'Tea drunk' fatigue can come in before I have fully utilised the leaf.

[Zanaspus]

I've found that it depends largely on the tea in question. Many wonderful Wuyi oolongs just kinda give up after 5-8 infusions. On the other hand, I wake up to sheng every day and usually go through at least 20.

I have seen some folks call later infusions "ethereal." To my palate, that just means tasteless.

But I agree with earlier posts. Try an infusion of at least 5-10 minutes before you give up on a tea. Heck, folks at the tea gallery have gone to day long later infusions...much beyond my patience and tolerance.

[Maitre_Tea]

Like it's been said before...it really depends on the type of oolong; however, the quality also plays a large role too. As you move past 7-8 infusions, I feel that the tea leaves are probably more forgiving with hotter water/longer steeping time. Of course, that means that it's probably easier to forget that you're actually steeping something.

I find that most oolong last for up to 8 infusions before they have an "ethereal" or nonexistent flavor that's like a ghost of the infusion. But Dan Cong though is completely different. Imen from Tea Habitat carries DC that can go up to 30+ infusions. I tried the '08 Zhi Lan Xiang she carries, and it lasted for about 15 infusions. I could've kept going, but I was getting a little heady from the fragrant aroma. For really good teas, IMO, later infusions obviously won't taste like the 2nd or 3rd infusion, but they have remarkable staying power; or later infusions might reveal characteristics of a tea that were masked by heavy roasting or fruitiness. I tend to notice a better floral aroma in my heavily roasted Wuyi when they enter the 5th or 6th infusion.

But it's really up to you though. If you like the taste of a tea on its 8th infusion, than I say just keep going. I generally only brew teas past the 8th infusion if they're really fascinating (or so expensive that I feel the need to squeeze all my money's worth out of them. )

[tea fish]

Heck, folks at the tea gallery have gone to day long later infusions

Whoa, that is some Xtreme brewing. That said, I kind of like the idea of starting an infusion, leaving for work, and returning home to some potent brew. Maybe I'll try it...

Thanks for the tips, all. I will try the 5 min or even the 10 min brew, if I can be patient enough! And Herb_Master, I will see what more densely packed leaves and even shorter initial brewing times do for my tea...

[Proinsias]

7 weeks!

Lots of leaf in a small vessel can help, I'm on the 10th brew of some mediocre Darjeeling.

[Salsero]

I often find that darker oolongs like Wuyi and Oriental Beauty don't go as long as TGY, Dan Cong, Bao Zhong, and the lighter Taiwanese oolongs.

[coloradopu]

i find all the info here pertaining to oolong very helpful especially herbs in depth brew parameters.

i find in my experience that the tea has a lot to offer and doing change up in TEK is needed for different teas to get all the goodness out. "agreed"

as you are probably tired of hearing it from me by now i have added to my TEK the roasting or "Hong Bei" as stated in other threads.

i have found in the fun that i have had with a Tek like herbs with its enjoyment of the tea and the challenges presented by it that i like to throw a good size monkey wrench into the works. ie the hong bei.
in doing this i find the amount of leaf needed is less and the # of brews obtained are greater. as stated before you do reach that point were the tea becomes:" "ethereal" "thanks Maitre_Tea a wonderful way to describe it. " : but with roasting the oils and sugars are more active. if done right " it takes some curve to get it" and due to this they infuse better and longer.

i hope im not boring you guys with this roasting/ refreshing / hong bei thing but i have found oolongs to be the most responsive to it just before brewing.

when its good i like to pass it on.

[trent]

I often find that darker oolongs like Wuyi and Oriental Beauty don't go as long as TGY, Dan Cong, Bao Zhong, and the lighter Taiwanese oolongs.

Interesting... I've found exactly the opposite. I never brew lighter oolongs for more than one day because they seem to develop an unusual off putting taste if steeped overnight.

[wyardley]

I often find that darker oolongs like Wuyi and Oriental Beauty don't go as long as TGY, Dan Cong, Bao Zhong, and the lighter Taiwanese oolongs.

Interesting... I've found exactly the opposite. I never brew lighter oolongs for more than one day because they seem to develop an unusual off putting taste if steeped overnight.

I think he meant the tea's durability within one session, rather than suitability for brewing over multiple days. I think a lot depends on the tea itself, rather than the processing. But I also have usually seen the opposite of what Salsero describes.

Of course, it's easier to pack rolled teas in tight, so that might have something to do with this.

btw, re: processing, both Oriental Beauty and Wuyi teas may usually look "darker", but the processing is very different. yancha (at least the darker looking ones) are usually low-medium oxidation and medium-high roast, and Oriental Beauty is very highly oxidized, but (as I understand it) not roasted at all.

[Salsero]

But I also have usually seen the opposite of what Salsero describes...

Good points, Trent and Will, thanks for correcting me. After you made me examine my assumptions, I realized I have never carried a light oolong over to a second day, and the 12-day brewing marathon tea that Tim set up for himself, Phyll, and me was a Wuyi Shui Xian. The leaves, of course, were one of those legendary teas that Tim seems to find so often. They were not your standard Da Hong Pao or very roasty Shui Xian. In fact, after looking over some of my notes, I see that in fact some of the better yan cha I have had have yielded quite few infusions when I have loaded up the gaiwan with a lot of leaf.

re: processing, both Oriental Beauty and Wuyi teas may usually look "darker", but the processing is very different.

Thanks also, Will, for clarifying the distinction between typical processing of Yan Cha and Oriental Beauty.

[tenuki]

Add more leaf and shorten your infusion times after the initial leaf opening. It's trickier to brew this way and not overbrew, but if you can hit it right you will be very happy.

[JPX]

Like you, I rarely find the time, energy and stamina to go beyond, or at least far beyond 6 infusions.

But my 5th infusion is a lot less than 3 minutes, it may be down to the amount of leaf that you are using, compared to those whom miraculously report up to 30 infusions.

I use 8 grams to a 140ml pot, and go something like 12s, 10s, 15s, 22s, 30s.
This will be with pots that pour in about 10s and does not include the few seconds pouring the water, replacing the kettle etc.

I find that every tea is different, and behaves ever so slightly differently every time I brew it, so I adjust the timing parameters accordingly as a session develops, sometimes I do need to increase the infusion times more steeply, sometimes I lay off a little, sometimes if slightly distracted I just accept what happens.

If I brew with a lighter loading, I find that astringency will come in with longer initial infusions, with a heavier loading the brew seems full and flavourful with short steeps. I find occasionally when I bump up the time for a later infusion that bitterness will come, but if only to a low level then I find this enjoyable.

I have tried even heavier loadings, but not with the success that I can obtain on densely packed Wuyi Yan Cha, added to which the amount of tea swelling in the teapot can become a problem by the 4th brew.

My only concern with the loading I use (particularly late at night, with sleep beckoning) is that 'Tea drunk' fatigue can come in before I have fully utilised the leaf.

so, generally, you brew oolong that way?

4 or so grams in a 140ml pot /gaiwan, 12, 10, 15, 22 etc?

im so lost with the million way of brewing... Lately, i have been doing 2-4 mins in a pot (doing it according to whats written on the package)(i guess this way only get you 1-2 steep where doing it your way will give you more steep?) But what about flavors? Isnt it gonna be more mild ?

If you could explain to me why you do short steeps like that and what are the advantage, i would appreciate it. Thanks!

P.S : same with japanese greens. At my tea house, they say i should do 20sec, 15sec, 20sec, 30sec, 45sec, 1min, etc. where the package is saying to do 2mins (and use the same number of grams of tea).

[Herb_Master]

My understanding is as follows, may be slightly wrong but should be in the same ball park.

When a tea leaf is allowed to partially oxidise, and undergoes various chemical transformations, the various chemical elements and compounds that are contained vary according to the processes followed by the tea maker, the amount of roasting and extent to which any aging has occurred.

When brewed the different chemicals are extracted or released at different rates. The different classes of Oolong (YanCha, DanCong, Anxi, High Mountain) may perform differently at different temperatures, but within each class the different elements will be extracted in different ratios at different rates according to the temperature.

Certain Oolongs such as DanCong contain some bitter and astringent elements, if the 1st Infusion is too long these astringent elements will leach out and the brew may become too bitter. If the first infusion is for a relatively short time, the flavour profile of the brew may not contain any bitterness, but unfortunately does not contain a large enough dose of the fragrant and pleasantly savoury elements resulting in a weak and flavourless drink.

By increasing the amount of leaf, and infusing for the same short time the same amount of pleasant flavouring is extracted for each quantity of leaf (but the water is the same volume as before) resulting in a stronger tasting brew.

Think of the leaf as containing a layer of flavours, each layer being extracted (depending on water temperature) as a certain amount of steeping time goes by. Each individual palate is different in terms of which constituent flavours please, so the trick is to find the concentration of leaf and infusion times which give you the greatest pleasure.

Some teas are more forgiving than others, and may provide a most pleasant cup when all the layers are extracted in one infusion. A few grams in a lot of water brewed for several minutes will produce a rounded cup.

Some people prefer to use more leaf with shorter infusion times, to control the way the tea tastes from infusion to infusion.

Some people prefer to really highly pack their little pot, and on these occasions even a few seconds would be too long - the infusion would be unbearably strong. Here you will refer to them starting with Flash infusions - as they go 1s 1s 1s 1s 2s 3s 4s as they go on up to maybe 30 infusions.

So to sum up - I would say that the instructions on the packet are generally leading the consumer to a 'Western' style of brewing. The multiple steep followed by many (Gong Fu style) is suitable for a person who wishes to explore the different flavour layers and nuances that occur to successive infusions - requiring a higher leaf to water ration.
As the infusions progress the most accessible flavour elements have already been extracted, so the times need to go up to compensate. The one exception to this can be the 2nd Infusion, where the leaf needed longer time on the first to wake up and open out the leaves.

This has been discussed before and different people have different preferences. Most try their iown favourite ratio with a new tea to see how it performs before making adjustments.
I know that some prefer 1 gram to every 20ml of water, some to every 30ml and some to every 50ml of water - but initial infusion times may be as long as 20 or 30 seconds.