Yixing and Tetsubin questions/advice

[KillaWatt]

Ok so here's the deal. I have a small cast iron teapot and a small yixing. Oolong is just about all I drink and I use both teapots for brewing it. My yixing seems to take away all of the floral notes that I enjoy out of the tea and add a strange mud/clay type taste. Does that mean my yixing is low quality? And my other question is i have read from just about everybody here how bad tetsubin pots are for brewing tea. And actually I love the way my oolong tastes when I make it in there. It really seems to magnify the floral undertones that I like. I leave the lid off while brewing so it doesnt get to hot and that leads to my question. Is the only reason alot of you would not recommend using tetsubin is because of the overheating possibility? Or are there other reasons?

[TomVerlain]

what do you heat your water in ? I am assuming your tetsubin is lined with a basket and not for boiling water on the stove. Do you preheat either pot ? It might be temerature and process rather than pot.

[Zanaspus]

Is your yixing young? As it becomes more seasoned, it will rob less floral notes. However, it will always produce a 'rounder' tea than say, porcelain. There are some teas I just don't want to be 'rounded.' For me, these are usually more expressive teas however.

[Maitre_Tea]

I think it depends mostly with what type of clay it is...clays fired at lower temperatures, like Duan Ni, or going to be more porous and will "round" out tea flavors more than say, Zhu Ni, which is higher fired and because of the fine texture of the clay, will bring out some of the floral notes a little better. I'll let the experts either destroy this statement or mind or elaborate further on it

[ghengiskun]

May I borrow this topic for another yixing newbie question?

When brewing oolongs (dancong or yancha) in my new clay toys, it comes to me that my tea get that 'overcooked' taste pretty soon, maybe after two or three steepings (I fill the pot 3/4 full with tea, flash steepings). I believe that it is because those clay pot retains heat better than porcelain, thus the tea leaves keep steaming and cooking even though the water was emptied to a cup.

I don't have this feeling when steeping in my porcelain gaiwan.

This leads me to a question for which I couldn't google any answer: Should I open the pot after decanting the tea and keep it opened between brews? Or does it simply mean that I should find another pot for those teas, maybe with thinner walls?

Speaking of which, how thin is thin and how thick is thick?

[Herb_Master]

May I borrow this topic for another yixing newbie question?

When brewing oolongs (dancong or yancha) in my new clay toys, it comes to me that my tea get that 'overcooked' taste pretty soon, maybe after two or three steepings (I fill the pot 3/4 full with tea, flash steepings). I believe that it is because those clay pot retains heat better than porcelain, thus the tea leaves keep steaming and cooking even though the water was emptied to a cup.

I don't have this feeling when steeping in my porcelain gaiwan.

This leads me to a question for which I couldn't google any answer: Should I open the pot after decanting the tea and keep it opened between brews? Or does it simply mean that I should find another pot for those teas, maybe with thinner walls?

Speaking of which, how thin is thin and how thick is thick?

Not sure that I know where to start answering this. But a few modest observations.

Many chatters on these boards do their utmost to keep the temperature up as much as possible between infusions, or at least raise the temperature prior to each infusion by externally warming the pot in a shower or bath of hot water. This would imply that heat retention may not be the problem. Are you fully draining the teapot after each infusion (and not leaving a small amount of water in the bottom) ?

I sometimes leave the lid off and sometimes replace it after pouring into the fair cup and have not discerned any differences. Though I sometimes stop after 4 or 5 infusions and the next mornings infusion is sometimes a waste of time and sometimes seemingly more exquisite than the previous evenings session. Each oolong or yancha will behave differently no doubt, but I find the differences more pronounced when I am using a highly packed Yixing, have you noticed the same effects when using a more modestly packed Teapot with correspondingly longer infusions ?

Thin, Medium or Thick ? I don't think there is an industry standard, but I believe that workshops such as Shouzhen's for all their smaller pots produce medium thickness, there is a higher failure rate with hand made and half handmade pots. You can order thinner from them but it will be entirely handmade and a higher price for that reason and the greater failure rate. I don't think a well made pot of medium thickness walls should retain sufficient heat to provide the adverse effects you are noticing (or at least not to the extremes)

If a pot did have very thick walls and retained the heat that well, if it were large enough it may be best suited for brewing Western style!

[Tead Off]

May I borrow this topic for another yixing newbie question?

When brewing oolongs (dancong or yancha) in my new clay toys, it comes to me that my tea get that 'overcooked' taste pretty soon, maybe after two or three steepings (I fill the pot 3/4 full with tea, flash steepings). I believe that it is because those clay pot retains heat better than porcelain, thus the tea leaves keep steaming and cooking even though the water was emptied to a cup.

I don't have this feeling when steeping in my porcelain gaiwan.

This leads me to a question for which I couldn't google any answer: Should I open the pot after decanting the tea and keep it opened between brews? Or does it simply mean that I should find another pot for those teas, maybe with thinner walls?

Speaking of which, how thin is thin and how thick is thick?

There are different styles of filling the pot with leaves, more leaves or less leaves. Then, brewing time will be adjusted to more or less leaves. But, I see no purpose to leaving the lid off between infusions. Oolongs need higher heat than greens so you want to keep the heat up as much as possible. Heat loss will affect the flavor if there is too much but yixing doesn't seem to have this problem.

[ghengiskun]

Thanks for your thoughts Herb_Master and tead off. I've thought it once again, and maybe the problem is that my yixing is too big for flash infuses. It's one 180cc zhuni wendan. Maybe such a big pot is better for brewing with less leaves? And maybe not dancong, but something more green, like TGY or ding dong?

I think I'll have to experiment with the yixing more. I'll be glad for any of yours more experienced opinion though .

[Herb_Master]

I use some 140ml pots for Dancong ( 2 medium, and 1 medium to sturdy)and never pack it enough to need flash infusions, I use about 8gms and start with about 10 seconds plus pouring time. I tend on the whole to get pretty good results.

I use some 170ml pots (1 medium to thin, 1 medium) for Wuyi Yancha , when I use 7 to 10gm, again I start with about 10 secs. If I pack it with 14gm the first 3 infusions are less than 1 second plus pouring time, and sometimes the first 2 are too strong to be really enjoyable, by the time I get to 10 seconds on 5th or 6th infusion I sometimes find the tea incomparably better than I get from less density of leaf.

I also use some 200 to 350 ml pots for YanCha - but go for less leaf, and start with about 20 seconds.

I get consistently decent results from the lower packing densities, but in the high packing the consistency from infusion to infusion is not so high but the really good infusions are sublime.

[brandon]

I get consistently decent results from the lower packing densities, but in the high packing the consistency from infusion to infusion is not so high but the really good infusions are sublime.

That is why we call it kung fu cha
It is an acquired skill - most of us are still practicing.

[Tead Off]

Thanks for your thoughts Herb_Master and tead off. I've thought it once again, and maybe the problem is that my yixing is too big for flash infuses. It's one 180cc zhuni wendan. Maybe such a big pot is better for brewing with less leaves? And maybe not dancong, but something more green, like TGY or ding dong?

I think I'll have to experiment with the yixing more. I'll be glad for any of yours more experienced opinion though .

I have 2 larger pots, 240ml approx., that I get great results with but do not fill more than half way with water. I think the extra space somehow allows the leaves to open more. You do not have to fill the pot to get a good cup.