Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

[tingjunkie]

Or at least tell me whatever you can about it just from these pictures.

Age? Clay type? Value? Have you seen one like it before? What does the chop say? etc. Whatever you can guess at would help a lot. I promise I won't hold you accountable for any wrong guesses, I'm just trying to find out whatever I can.

All I know is that she's pretty, has a seven hole flat filter, and is at the very least from the mid '90s. Could be any age before that. Thanks for your help!

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[tingjunkie]

Edit: Now right side up, as per wyardley's advice! One more of the chop.

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[wyardley]

One more of the chop.

chop.JPG

I think the photo of the chop is upside-down. It looks like '荊溪南孟臣製' (jīng qī nán mèng chén zhì), which is a standard chop used by the state-owned factories (as well as scores of other makers). Even though Meng Chen was a famous teapot maker, it's understood that this pot is not actually made by him. So the chop's text by itself doesn't tell you anything more than other standard seals like 中国宜兴. I'm not 100% sure of the reasons that one or the other of those chops would be used by the state-owned Yixing factories, though I think both of those two seals were used at least in overlapping time periods (such as during the 60s-80s). I might have read something about small (maybe higher quality) red clay pots using the 6 character seal, but I could totally be remembering that wrong.

The clay looks like some sort of green clay.

Like the lid shape.

[tingjunkie]

The clay looks like some sort of green clay.

Thanks for the great info wyardley! What types of green clay are out there, and are they at all esteemed by tea drinkers? Better for oolong or pu erh? I only really know a little about the red clays.

[wyardley]

The clay looks like some sort of green clay.

Thanks for the great info wyardley! What types of green clay are out there, and are they at all esteemed by tea drinkers? Better for oolong or pu erh? I only really know a little about the red clays.

I think 緑泥 (lǜ ní) is the usual general name for green clay. Look for some of chrl42's posts if you want to see really specific information about different types / subtypes of green clay; benshan luni is one type frequently mentioned, though most of the examples I've seen are a lighter color.

I think natural sources of green clay are pretty rare, and so even if the pot is pre 1990s, it's very possible that it's simply clay that has some sort of additive to make it green. I don't have enough experience with this sort of pot to even venture a guess as to whether the green is a natural green from the clay or whether it's just from some sort of additive.

You could take a look at this pot, which has kind of a similar color, which he refers to as muo lu ni (referring to an olive-green color; not sure what the first character there would be).
http://www.houdeasianart.com/index.php? ... cts_id=922

Do you know it's from the 90s because you've had it since then?

[tingjunkie]

Do you know it's from the 90s because you've had it since then?

Not mine... yet. It is a pot I am thinking about purchasing, but the owner isn't very knowledgeable at all, so getting information is like pulling teeth. She has had it since the mid 90's, but I'm waiting to hear if it was old/second hand when she bought it. I was hoping I came across a steal (or at least a very good deal), but wanted to get some opinions first.

[tingjunkie]

Can anyone tell why the etching or characters are more of a reddish color? Do they add paint after etching, or do you think it may be slip cast and red clay is showing through underneath?

Unfortunately, I'm red/green colorblind, so (even if I had more knowledge) trying to narrow down Yixing clay types by sight is near impossible for me.

Here is an awesome thead of info from chrl42. I'm guessing this pot may be Muo Luni instead of natural Luni due to the lack of silica dots? Whatever, I'm over my head... I'll wait for others to make better guesses.

[Tead Off]

Do you know it's from the 90s because you've had it since then?

Not mine... yet. It is a pot I am thinking about purchasing, but the owner isn't very knowledgeable at all, so getting information is like pulling teeth. She has had it since the mid 90's, but I'm waiting to hear if it was old/second hand when she bought it. I was hoping I came across a steal (or at least a very good deal), but wanted to get some opinions first.

I have no experience with green clay, but, in my conversations with Hojo, he pointed out that green clay has the least effect on flavor, but, the most effect on aroma. As a tea drinker, aroma is important, but, flavor is supreme. For my money, I prefer to put it into zhuni or purple clay for the most enhancement of my teas, both flavor and aroma.

[tingjunkie]

I have no experience with green clay, but, in my conversations with Hojo, he pointed out that green clay has the least effect on flavor, but, the most effect on aroma. As a tea drinker, aroma is important, but, flavor is supreme. For my money, I prefer to put it into zhuni or purple clay for the most enhancement of my teas, both flavor and aroma.

Thanks TO. Do you know if Hojo is of the opinion that green clay takes away from flavor, or simply doesn't affect flavor? While we're on the topic, have you used purple clay yixing for oolongs? If so, how did they affect the taste and aroma?

I agree with you about putting money into the right pot, but depending on the age of this one, it may just be worth it as an investment or something to turn around and sell for a profit. Of course, some first hand experimentation would have to be carried out first before I got rid of it. And as I said, she is pretty.

[Tead Off]

I have no experience with green clay, but, in my conversations with Hojo, he pointed out that green clay has the least effect on flavor, but, the most effect on aroma. As a tea drinker, aroma is important, but, flavor is supreme. For my money, I prefer to put it into zhuni or purple clay for the most enhancement of my teas, both flavor and aroma.

Thanks TO. Do you know if Hojo is of the opinion that green clay takes away from flavor, or simply doesn't affect flavor?

I agree with you about putting money into the right pot, but depending on the age of this one, it may just be worth it as an investment or something to turn around and sell for a profit. Of course, some first hand experimentation would have to be carried out first before I got rid of it. And as I said, she is pretty.

I assume he has a low opinion of green clay as a medium for brewing tea. I don't know anyone who actively seeks to buy green clay teapots. Even in Japan, the red and purple clays are highly thought of.

[Maitre_Tea]

Not to rain on your parade, but how is the vendor so sure this is the 90s, if not earlier?

[tingjunkie]

I don't know anyone who actively seeks to buy green clay teapots. Even in Japan, the red and purple clays are highly thought of.

Agreed, but if it's from the '80s or before, it's probably worth far more than the asking price. Let's just say it's WAY less expensive than the one at Hou De that wyardley linked to.

[tingjunkie]

Not to rain on your parade, but how is the vendor so sure this is the 90s, if not earlier?

She has personally owned it since then. I have no reason not to trust her, as she does not know a single thing about Yixing, and therefore does not have any reason to use the mid 90's as a selling point. Only in the word of Yixing is something from the 90's already considered a valuable antique! As I said, I'm waiting to hear back to see if it was already old/second when she acquired it. If so, then I'm going to pull the trigger and take my chances.

[Maitre_Tea]

Not to rain on your parade, but how is the vendor so sure this is the 90s, if not earlier?

She has personally owned it since then. I have no reason not to trust her, as she does not know a single thing about Yixing, and therefore does not have any reason to use the mid 90's as a selling point. Only in the word of Yixing is something from the 90's already considered a valuable antique! As I said, I'm waiting to hear back to see if it was already old/second when she acquired it. If so, then I'm going to pull the trigger and take my chances.

Okay, seems fair enough...unless she bought a fake one and she doesn't know about it. REALLY sorry for throwing doubts and metaphoric wrenches into your plans, but having dealt with people trying to sell you "antique" yixing pots in China, I have little trust of vendors unless other people have been happy with them.

Hopefully another expert, like chrl42, can properly identify this pot. But IMO, I wouldn't use it for tea...green clay, although can be natural and stuff, just looks weird to me. If it's real though, would be good for collector's value though

[tingjunkie]

No problem MT- I completely understand your skepticism. The fact that the vendor has no idea about Yixing is oddly enough the only reason I trust her!

Yes, I'm hoping chrl42, TIM or others will see this soon and comment. It's probably easier to learn to speak Chinese than it is to figure out the sordid world of Chinese pottery!