Your thoughts on this yixing?

[Bert]

Hello TeaChat community!

About two years ago I bought this little pot (ca. 90 ml, 3 fl.oz) from a huge flea market in Leipzig where I never did expect to find an yixing.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56 ... ihihu1.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56 ... ihihu2.jpg

The seals are:
中國宜興 - China Yixing
菊芳 - JuFang - fragrant chrysanthemum (?)

It is not very evident on the photograph but the lid is shaped irregular, looking very clumsy. The pot's body itself is shaped ok, not good, but better than the lid. In contrary to this, the quality of the clay seems quite nice to me: dense, sandy, producing good tasting tea. This and the fact that the pot is obviously hand made and not shape molded or wheel thrown makes me wonder about the origin of it.
If it were the first step of a potter making a tea pot, why does it have the yixing seal and got into sale?
If the clay is of good quality, why does the pot have this poor shape?

Maybe somebody here can shed some light onto this pot.
Thanks!

[wyardley]

I'm not an expert, but I will post a few thoughts in case it's helpful. Feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

There are lots of pots made post-CR in the state-owned Yixing factories that are... well let's just say the construction quality of pots from that era is somewhat variable. I have always heard it said that a lot of people who had no experience making pots were assigned to work in the Yixing factories, so while they were learning, a lot of pots probably went out with fairly good clay but (in some cases), somewhat shoddy workmanship. And the plain, standard style pots were probably one of the first assignments new workers got put on. I think (and I have no good citation for this) that practice pots usually had no seal and weren't sold, but I'm sure during some periods, the quality control wasn't that great.

There are some quite well-made pots from that time period, but also some that are kind of funky. Especially since the really well-made ones are probably being hung on to, I think you will find that slight defects or irregularities are almost the rule rather than the exception. As far as the body shape, it looks to me the way the factory style Xishi pots normally look (the shape was modified from a standard Xishi style, as I understand it, to make mass-production easier).

Also, since the Zhongguo Yixing seal was used & copied widely, so the seal by itself doesn't really tell you a whole lot. It could be a 1970-1990 pot made in one of the Yixing factories, or it could be a copy made in another place and / or time.

The lid seal should be the maker's name. What's interesting is that in your picture, you can faintly see the very faint impression of another lid seal (looks like the same one, probably)?

The clay looks pretty porous / sandy up close; in my limited experience, rough / porous clay like this can be really good for making tea, so this may be part of why it makes such good tea. And really, as long as the pot functions well enough, that is probably good enough.

[tingjunkie]

Nice find! Do we know if this is Zhuni? Hongni? As long as it makes good tea, I'm sure you got a deal! Congrats.

EDIT: As I was doing some research of my own, I stumbled across several mentions of Yixing pots winning medals at the Leipzig Inernational Expo, going back as far as 1930 and as late as 1984. Do a google search for "yixing and leipzig" and you should get quite a few results. Perhaps this can lead you to an answer or two about the history of your pot. Good luck!

[oldmanteapot]

Nice find! Do we know if this is Zhuni? Hongni? As long as it makes good tea, I'm sure you got a deal! Congrats.

Wyardley has possibly said most of it.

It is definitely not ZhuNi, neither is it a HongNi. From the photos linked, it does look like some form of Hong Sha. We can find many of these teapots in gift packs or sold at the sidewalks in China. I would consider it a commoner's pot. My limited experience with teapots made of such clay is that it will usually carry a heavy earthy smell, or some calls it the smell of clay. This will in return, kill the fragrance of tea. In contrary to wyardley's reply, IMO, clays of this nature will not enhance tea.

I believe the general statement that 'sandy' clayed teapots brew better tea would be referring to older yixing (60s - 80s) which displays a coarse and sandy texture.

My 2cents. Cheers!

[Bert]

@ wyardeley:
Thanks for a lot of information I didn't hear before.

I did not notice the faint second seal impression before you mentioned it, zooming in, it is indeed the same as the other impression. From just looking at the pot I couldn't identify this seal, only from the magnified photograph it was possible for me.

To the shape of the pot I was told some time ago it was a Xishi shape, yesterday I read an offer for a similar pot which called it "flat base Shui Ping".

And here a link to a well made and well seasoned pot with the same design, from the CR peroid:

http://store.pchome.com.tw/galuly/M00052540.htm


@ tingjunkie:

I do not have much knowledge about clay but I don't think its either zhuni nor hongni. I would guess it as some kind of zisha, being more on the brown-reddish side. The photograph might emphasise too much of the red color.

Thanks for the hint with the International Expo! I doubt that the pot will have something to do with it because the merchants of the flea market are having business nationwide (maybe even having business in Poland and Czech Republic). But the funny thing is, that the flea market was held on the old trade fair area, where those gold medals were handed over years ago.


@ oldmanteapot:

This is what one might assume by looking at the pot.
The fact is, that it doesn't have a hint of earth / clay smell at all. It is not like terracotta but dense, giving a rocky sound when hit, tough not a high pitched one.

[chrl42]

I believe the general statement that 'sandy' clayed teapots brew better tea would be referring to older yixing (60s - 80s) which displays a coarse and sandy texture

or


I believe 'sandy' pot should look like this, this kinda pots are actually very smooth outside, seasoned one exactly looks like 'jade'

Frankly, I've yet to see good pot that has rough texture. Smoothness is one factor I see when choosing a pot..

[wyardley]

To the shape of the pot I was told some time ago it was a Xishi shape, yesterday I read an offer for a similar pot which called it "flat base Shui Ping".

Shui ping can mean different things when used to describe teapots. It's one of the standard 'wu xing' pots; a modified Xishi shape (which really doesn't look much like a "normal" Xishi pot anymore), and also a shui ping (in the sense that the opening, spout, and top of handle are on one plane).

Read Guang's bit on shui ping, biao zhun, wu xing:
http://houdeblog.com/?p=11

[wyardley]

My limited experience with teapots made of such clay is that it will usually carry a heavy earthy smell, or some calls it the smell of clay. This will in return, kill the fragrance of tea. In contrary to wyardley's reply, IMO, clays of this nature will not enhance tea.

I believe the general statement that 'sandy' clayed teapots brew better tea would be referring to older yixing (60s - 80s) which displays a coarse and sandy texture.

The pot I'm thinking of is an older pot, with a somewhat rough / sandy texture inside. I just noticed that this pot of mine (the outside of which is actually quite smooth and shiny) holds the fragrance of the tea for quite a long time after brewing, much longer than many of my other pots. And, more generally, more porous pots seem to smooth out the taste of the tea a little more.

In this case, what you're saying makes sense.

Hard to tell without feeling the outside of the pot; also, the pot hasn't been seasoned much yet. I suspect that it may look and feel nicer with some use and proper care.

[TIM]

Just a ref. 18th C Yixings. You can see the color are very different comparing to the modern Yixings.

[Tead Off]

I believe the general statement that 'sandy' clayed teapots brew better tea would be referring to older yixing (60s - 80s) which displays a coarse and sandy texture

or


I believe 'sandy' pot should look like this, this kinda pots are actually very smooth outside, seasoned one exactly looks like 'jade'

Frankly, I've yet to see good pot that has rough texture. Smoothness is one factor I see when choosing a pot..

Both of these pots look polished on the exterior. They are both beautiful. I think it helps the beauty of sandy clay to polish the exterior. It doesn't affect the brewing of the tea, though.

[tenuki]

producing good tasting tea

This is the only thing of value, the rest is illusion.

[Tead Off]

producing good tasting tea

This is the only thing of value, the rest is illusion.

Why not all of it?

[chrl42]

Both of these pots look polished on the exterior. They are both beautiful. I think it helps the beauty of sandy clay to polish the exterior. It doesn't affect the brewing of the tea, though.

Uh, not really.

First one is Zima Duanni, second is a year-used Shi Piao made by clay called 'Jin Lin Chuan Sha' by Zhu Jin Lin, a renowned clay blender

Oily texture of pot not only reflects its original compositin, but also temperature of firing, type of kiln (gas kiln, heavy-oil kiln) and intentional waxing too..

[chrl42]

First pot took its motive from late-Ming's Zhou Ji Shan's Ju Lun Zhu, made by extraordinary clay called 'Tian Xing ni' (Ben Shan Luni + Baini + Huangni + Wuxi Yang mountain's ironstone)


let me add some old beauties..


Xu Xi Hai (famous Yixing collector) owned Mid-Qing's Shao Da Heng's Zhui Zi, this is reported to be made of legendary clay called 'Tian Qing ni'


Yu Guo Liang (late-Qing~ROC)'s Chuan Lu, made of 'Da Hong Pao'

'Sand-type' is trait of Ming to early-Qing Zisha

Shi Da Bin's..




Chen Ming Yuan's



ok..I'll stop

[tenuki]

producing good tasting tea

This is the only thing of value, the rest is illusion.

Why not all of it?

Cause I'm 'attached' to tea..