Getting ripped off on the Internet...how much really?

[bagua7]

I spoke to my Taiwanese ex the other day about the price of the teaware on the Internet and she told me: Gerard, you are getting ripped off by unscrupulous Chinese business people...you will be paying 3 times more most of the time and sometimes a lot more.

Well, that's the nature of trade: law of supply and demand. However, my question is: how much are we really paying for those items if the quality isn't there?

In other words, if we take a look at the competition and see what they are offering. Is their product the same quality? If it is, then don't expect to sell yours unless you significantly lower the price. If your version, however, is better, then you can charge more for it, especially if there is a big demand.

But what is the real price for the items in question in the markets of China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong? Significantly cheaper I suppose.

Does this include real Yixing teaware?

[gingkoseto]

You are actually talking about a global problem

I once saw at taobao (a ebay-like place in China) a plastic human muscle model for something like $40, sold by someone directly connected to the factory manufacturer. I used the model in my work before and know its catalog price in US. Guess how much it is here - $1499. Well the taobao model is unauthorized product using design from the US company (pirate copy I guess). And I know everything made in China is supposed to be significantly more expensive here. But still, the $1000+ difference blew me away

In my opinion, similar problems in tea and tea ware do exist, but are much smaller I also think, if you go to right places, buying yixing from westerner sellers (especially from those who are located in China) is not that much more expensive than buying yixing from Chinese local sellers. For example, I occasionally buy teapots from Yunnansourcing, even though I know where to buy them from Chinese local sellers. It's nice to have the teapot air-mailed (while Chinese local sellers only do EMS) not worrying about shipping damage. Although I visit China frequently, I think it's too exhausted to carry fragile items in luggage. So I appreciate the convenience of buying online

[Victoria]

I think most of us realize we probably are getting overcharged, but here in the USA there are not many local places to buy Asian teaware. And we are willing to "pay the price" to get it. When you can, or do, get to a Chinatown, and see all the hundreds of stacks of cups going for cheap, it's kinda of a shock though.

[Tead Off]

You get ripped off when you don't do your homework. Knowing what you want and why you want it is the 1st step. Finding it is next. Asking questions about it follows. Then, negotiating and deciding.

My best advice is either not to buy yixing from photos or buy from a trusted source if you have to. Something can look good in a photo but when you get it in your hands it can be a let down. Of course, no one will follow this advice.

[britt]

The Taiwanese get a bad deal on this, as typically they offer a much higher quality and safer product than is available from mainland China, but at a higher price. However, many of the mainland Chinese products look exactly like the higher-priced ones from Taiwan. Many consumers think they're getting ripped off by the vendor selling an infuser mug for $30 when they can buy it somewhere else for $12, except it isn't really the same one. It looks the same, but is from a different manufacturer using different materials. One is from Taiwan and the other that looks exactly like it is from China. I don't think that some US vendors even know the difference, which is why I usually avoid them.

[entropyembrace]

Chinese materials aren´t automatically inferior...the difference in cost comes largely from the difference in what the workers are paid in China vs Taiwan not from the materials used if the products are virtually the same.

Personally I used to have a very good glass teapot from China, it was broken by my clumsiness...drop any glassware from a desktop onto hardwood floor and you expect it will break. The pour was very smooth and it certainly could handle the repeated temperature shocks of heavy use...I did pay quite a bit for it but it was mostly in markups because I bought it in a local teashop...online the same pot is 1/3 the price...but I didn´t know that then.

[JBaymore]

"Rip off" and "overcharged" are pretty relative terms in this context.

Because I have some Japanese language skills, and because I am IN Japan relatively frequently, and because I am a ceramic artist, I can obtain Japanese ceramic objects a lot more inexpensively than someone who does not posess these skills and opportunities. Those skills and opportunities did not/do not come along "for free"; there was a cost involved there.

You are paying for the convenience of having someone else half a world away with language skills and connections do the work of sourcing the pieces for you. Paying for that is not a "rip off". You could spend the time to learn the language, study about ceramics, and then travel to Japan or China or Taiwan or ???? and get the work at the best possible price.

In the end is is about supply and demand.

When it comes to the potential misrepresentation side of things...... tthat is a whole different kettle of fish.

best,

.....................john

[Chip]

+1

Often the value of an item is exactly what someone is willing and able to pay for such an item. As long as the item is as billed, no misrepresentation, I have no prob with a value based price per se, even a premium price.

However yet another side of this 3 sided coin is a sucker is born every day, and a fool and his money are soon parted.

[nickE]

Often the value of an item is exactly what someone is willing and able to pay for such an item.

TEAconomics!

[britt]

Chinese materials aren´t automatically inferior...the difference in cost comes largely from the difference in what the workers are paid in China vs Taiwan not from the materials used if the products are virtually the same.

Personally I used to have a very good glass teapot from China, it was broken by my clumsiness...drop any glassware from a desktop onto hardwood floor and you expect it will break. The pour was very smooth and it certainly could handle the repeated temperature shocks of heavy use...I did pay quite a bit for it but it was mostly in markups because I bought it in a local teashop...online the same pot is 1/3 the price...but I didn´t know that then.

There are some high quality products from China that are made from good materials, and I've been searching for some of them, but from my experience they're the exception, not the rule. Most of what I've purchased from China is junk. I own enough teaware and other items from Japan and Taiwan to know the difference in quality between those items and the majority of what comes out of China.

It's true that wages in Taiwan are higher, but the workers are more skilled and produce a higher quality product. Quality control standards are stricter and the manufacturing materials aren't usually the same. This may be considered by many to be my opinion, but it is supported by overwhelming evidence.

Be careful when you say the same glass teapot you purchased was available for 1/3 the price elsewhere. Maybe it was, and maybe they just looked the same. China is well known for pirating, copying, and counterfeiting a wide range of products including teaware. Products that appear to be the same are often from different manufacturers in different countries. I had noticed that a particular glass infuser mug made in Taiwan was $20 at one vendor and $9.95 at several others. I suspected the reason was the cheaper ones were made in China, not Taiwan, and this turned out to be the truth. However, most consumers wouldn't know this as they appeared to be identical. The Taiwanese mug used high temperature glass made from materials aquired from Japan and Dow in the US. I doubt very much the $9.95 Chinese mug used the same.

[isaac]

I empathize with the threadstarter - getting ripped off is a bad feeling regardless of the many rationalizations made.

It is not just the internet but also the traditional stores who will attempt to rip you off. The best defense is patience and the ability to walk away from an uncertain deal no matter how attractive.

I been to many online stores even to those mentioned in this forum. I have reservations on many of them. I will email them and will only consider if i find one who is passionate on the subject.

I finally found one who launched a constant diatribe against dishonesty. I intend to make a purchase just to test out his sincerity.

My solution: find someone who is as passionately against dishonesty as you. Never buy from those who rationalize dishonesty as the only loser is you, not them. Honest people can be found in online and traditional stores. Far better to take your time in making purchases than to burn over getting ripped off.

[entropyembrace]

Be careful when you say the same glass teapot you purchased was available for 1/3 the price elsewhere. Maybe it was, and maybe they just looked the same. China is well known for pirating, copying, and counterfeiting a wide range of products including teaware. Products that appear to be the same are often from different manufacturers in different countries. I had noticed that a particular glass infuser mug made in Taiwan was $20 at one vendor and $9.95 at several others. I suspected the reason was the cheaper ones were made in China, not Taiwan, and this turned out to be the truth. However, most consumers wouldn't know this as they appeared to be identical. The Taiwanese mug used high temperature glass made from materials aquired from Japan and Dow in the US. I doubt very much the $9.95 Chinese mug used the same.

I´m quite sure the difference in price in my case is that by ordering from DTH there´s at least one middleman cut out (the wholesaler that the local shop bought from)...what I paid at the local shop was close to $40 at DTH it´s about $9 + $11 airmail shipping. Why do I think it´s the same pot and not an imitation? Both are made in China and both have the same manufacturer labeled also, Shanghai General Merchandise and Gift Co., Ltd.

Heat resistant glass is not an expensive material...unless a glass pot has a lot of artistic embellishment you really shouldn´t be paying very much for them.

[bagua7]

...at DTH it´s about $9...

$9 in China is a heck of a lot of money. Again way cheaper than flying in there and returning but if you happen to travel to China or have a friend that can buy the stuff for you and ship it then go ahead, you will save a lot of money.

I will stick to what I purchased recently but it is the last time I buy teaware online.

[entropyembrace]

...at DTH it´s about $9...

$9 in China is a heck of a lot of money. Again way cheaper than flying in there and returning but if you happen to travel to China or have a friend that can buy the stuff for you and ship it then go ahead, you will save a lot of money.

I will stick to what I purchased recently but it is the last time I buy teaware online.

yes, I´m sure if I could purchase from DTH´s source it would cost even less. But travel to China is so expensive I think I am much better off paying a few dollars more to buy from online sellers in China that ship to North America.

[bagua7]

There're two other things that go missing when you purchase online:

1. The feel of the teaware (it's Qi).

2. Variety. What's offered online is only a marginal fraction of what is really available out there.