What's it about Shu Pu Erh?

[Marco]

Hello all,

teachat is awesome and led me in a Pu Erh sampling period
In the moment I enjoy sampling Sheng Pu Erh - the OTTI ones and some more I ordered. My curiosity made me order even a bunch more samples.

And I tried about 5-6 Shu Pu Erh as well. Today a 2009 7562.
But with all Shu Pu I had till now I have to say they smell horrible and the taste is - yea sometimes okay but nothing I would crave for.
Does all Shu Pu Erh taste like this?

What I’ve learned so far is that Shu Pu Erh is processed to simulate slightly aged Sheng. Is that right? Will my Sheng develope in that? Then I don't know why I should store it.

So do I simply not like Shu Pu? Or should I try different factories? (4 of the 6 where from Menghai and the other two I don't know) Or have they been to young? Will Shu Pu get better after some years?

Many questions again.
Hope you can help me.

ciao
Marco

[steanze]

Ciao Marco,

I am also not a big fan of shu pu erh, the samples you tried seem reasonable and it could just be a matter of taste.
For my taste, aged sheng tastes much better than shu. Whether the sheng is aged in a dry environment (dry stored) or in a humid environment (wet stored) also makes a big difference, with wet stored sheng being a bit more similar to shu than dry stored sheng. I tend to prefer dry stored sheng, but again this can be a matter of taste.

steanze

p.s. great to see another teachatter from Italy!

[steanze]

Oh and I forgot, yes, also shu tends to get better with aging

[entropyembrace]

I think shu NEEDS to be aged but sheng doesn´t...which is a bit backwards from the common wisdom.

But shu gets quite a few off aromas and flavours during the piling fermentation it goes through and it really needs a few years for those off flavours to air off and the really delicious flavours and aromas to come through. Because of that I generally won´t buy shu less than 5 years old. Also I ask the vendor if the "dui wei" is gone yet...that´s the bad fermentation aromas.

[shah82]

I'm not *huge* fan of moderately old shu. Plenty of 4-6-10 year old shu with rather little life to them. Super old top quality stuff, fine, but I want ~3 years for immediate drinking. Good shu will be drinkable with little or no wo dui after breaking the cake up and letting it air for a couple of weeks.

The main appeal of shu is that it's pleasantly bland and textured for very little cost. I have found that it's great for mornings and after heavy oily dinners.

[auhckw]

About Ripe
Nowadays there are express making method for Ripe which can be completed in 1 month. The traditional method will take a least 3 months and require a lot of space and men power to flip the tea.

The "du wei" taste is less / none is the traditional method. Big factories are moving toward express method as they want to process in bulk in the shortest time. So if you can, try finding Ripe that still uses traditional method.

There are also factory which uses ammonia in their Ripe to speed to process which makes the taste nasty, artificial or fishy. So be careful when selecting them. If it tasted not right, don't consume.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 42#p175142

My personal preference is Shu which has the aged 'herb' kind of taste and also recently found out that some Shu after aging has the 'plum' kind of taste.

Anyway, I would suggest if you have tried young Ripe and don't like it... try some Shu which is older eg 5 to 10 years range.

If you still don't like it, it is ok not liking Shu as it is an acquired taste

[Marco]

Thank you all for your inputs.

@steanze: Just my name and my form of greeting are Italian, I am from Austria.

@auhckw: Looks like a method of making "fast food tea" - I am no big fan of fast food. And where should I know from who uses the traditional method and who does not?

In my recent tea orders - that will hopefully arrive in 2-3 weeks - are some Shu Pu Erh samples as well. I will try them and I am thinking of trying 1-2 old Shu Pu Erh. If then there is not one that I like then I must be a greener guy

I will tell you after tasting more

ciao
Marco

[auhckw]

Thank you all for your inputs.

@auhckw: Looks like a method of making "fast food tea" - I am no big fan of fast food. And where should I know from who uses the traditional method and who does not?

ciao
Marco

Info I get:-
1) Traditional method should not taste too much "du wei" when it is young ripe
2) The leaves after you brew it should not be sticky sticky

[shah82]

Is all of Dayi/Xiaguan/Haiwan express or do they do some traditional?

[legend]

My experience here in China with Shu cha has led me to a general but helpful notion I can share with you. When a shu cha is processed the fermentation process can be more natural or more forced. Of course the natural processing takes a larger investment of time and energy and the resulting tea is the only one fit to be called authentic.
In order to force the process, the factories resort to "curing" the leaves by adding more temperature, wetness and humidity. This is similar to the curing of tobacco, which may be appropriate for a cigars which are smoked but not for tea, which is drunk. The lesson here is the taste of these imposter teas is similar to the scent of cured tobacco . A naturally/ propperly fermented Shu cha will not carry this scent. Describing this exactly is difficult but I always think of this when I drink Shu Puer:
You should get a taste feeling of "aged," and not "cured."
It will also help your experience to try other black teas which are always naturally fermented, most notably Liu Bao Cha, then the idea of the taste of natural fermentation can be better referenced in your mind.

Daniel

[skilfautdire]

About RipeThere are also factory which uses ammonia in their Ripe to speed to process which makes the taste nasty, artificial or fishy. So be careful when selecting them. If it tasted not right, don't consume.

Surely there must be something about that ammonia 'taste'. I recently had (partly I must say) a century egg. The duck eggs that becomes purplish-black. After breaking the outer rice shell layer and the egg shell proper, there was a strong smell of ammonia. Still, that does not deter people from eating them and they are to be found in every Chinese supermarket. The more modern ones that do not have the rice shell but are instead wrapped in plastic still have an ammonia smell although much less. I gave the rest of the 6-pack of eggs away to a colleague who simply likes them.

It's interesting to see how this ammonia smell can be perceived through different cultures.

Century eggs on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_egg

[legend]

My observation of the Chinese cuisine especially here in the south is that they are masters of fermentation. In fact they are responsible pioneering all the basic mothods of fermentation we still use today. Think about it- they were ancient masters of preservation and fermentation: alcohol, tea, pickling, smoking, salting, sauces, there are many varieties of fermented fruits and vegetables you will never see in the west including tangerines, garlic, ginger, etc. So... why do I bring this up,
well it is to actually point out that the (皮蛋 pi dan) or hundred year eggs are actually preserved eggs. If there is an ammonia smell it is likely that it has come from bad production or storage. Most of the Chinese delicassies for export could be influenced by many factors andcouldbe different than those in the mainland. This is no just true of preserved eggs and most perishible food products but most importantly TEA. A smell of ammonia is not indicitive of any process even preserving which uses vinegars or salts. This is a clear indication something is wrong. If your Puer Shu cha or even Sheng cha has any notion at all of ammonia it is worthless and there is no nutrition in it at all.

[oldmanteapot]

Hi and welcome to TC!

Shu is definitely an acquired taste. Starting off your Shu journey with a 2009 Shu is not a very good idea unless you're trying to find out how 'wodui' smells and taste like.

The 'wodui' smell is introduce into the tea as a direct result of the 'wodui' process which is a fermentation process which make a Shu, a Shu

Try sourcing for a Shu between 5 - 7 years old. If stored correctly, the 'wodui' smell would have greatly diminished. But then again, many of the more notable tea manufacturers like Dayi and etc has came up with new batches of Shu that doesn't have a strong 'wodui' smell. These are immediately consumable. These are relatively new recipes (approx 3 years) and the long term changes to the characte of the tea is yet unknown. One of such tea is the Dayi Adorned in Red (2008).

For a more immediate solution for your current tea in stock, break it up and store it individually in non-airtight jars, prefebally porcelain or yixing. You can do a search in TC for info on proper storage. There are plenty

Welcome once again to the start of a wonderful journey in tea.

Cheers from Penang, Malaysia!!

[tingjunkie]

+1 to everything Old Man Teapot just wrote, except I think for higher end shu, only 2-3 years is all it takes to get rid of the unwanted smells. I just attended a shu tasting tonight where we had a 2001 loose shu and a 2008 shu cake which had been broken up and stored properly since it was a baby. Both teas were fantastic, and neither had any off tastes at all, but surprisingly, the 2001 had a very slight trace of the wodui smell and the 2008 had none. Just remember, not all shu is fermented to the same level, or in quite the same way.

[Marco]

Thank you for joining with your good advices - I feel like a sponge that wants to soak up every bit of information

Had another Shu Pu today, but again a young one (2009). This one has been of Cha Tou. - So that is probably something totally different. It didn't smell bad at all or give me any unpleasant feelings - so maybe wodui is gone?
It was decent - nothing I would order though.