Chinese greens comparable to gyokuro?

[Streak]

Hello tea-addiction-enablers,

I've been thinking of trying some different greens besides gyokuro but I'm not sure where to start.

I've avoided Chinese greens so far because it seems that people who enjoy them usually describe them as being bitter, and I'm not a fan of that. But, are ALL Chinese greens bitter? The gyokuro I'm drinking is from Teavana, so probably not the highest grade, but it's definitely on the sweeter side and it's not at all bitter. Are there any Chinese greens with similar qualities?

[Xell]

I don't know much about chinese green teas, but i think it's true for them too. If you get quality tea it won't be bitter and will have nice taste almost without bitterness. Did you try drinking good sencha? It's also not bitter and has really nice and rich flavor.

[entropyembrace]

Good quality Chinese greens generally are not bitter if brewed correctly. The few I´ve tried so far have been light, sweet and floral.

But you´re not likely to find them at stores like Teavanna....if you´re interested you can try ordering online from China once the new harvests come in to get fresh, good quality green tea

Personally the better Chinese greens I have tried were from Jing Tea Shop http://www.jingteashop.com/

I´m sure others would have more suggestions for you to explore

[JRS22]

I am super-sensitive to bitterness in teas and one of the reasons I love Chinese greens (and whites) is their lack of bitterness. I don't recall experiencing bitterness even when I first began drinking tea and was brewing many teas too long in water that was too hot.

Jing Tea Shop is excellent, as is Seven Cups. Another vendor to consider is Tea Trekker. They sell sample-size bags of most, if not all, of their teas. With Jing and Seven Cups the smallest size bag is 25 grams.

Keep in mind that the harvest is coming up soon and many 2011 teas will be available in April or May. Seven Cups doesn't show out-of-stock teas so their inventory will appear sparse until the new harvest is in. And all 3 vendors list harvest year on their websites so you know you're getting fresh tea.

[Oni]

http://www.teaspring.com/En-Shi-Yu-Lu.asp
Also called chinese gyokuro, it is an excelent tea at teaspring, but I would wait until the new harvest arrives.

[Chasm]

I've never had a Chinese green that was bitter unless it was brewed incorrectly.

Teasource had one once that I was nuts about. The owner and staff were surprised when I raved about it -- they said most people thought it too bitter. I said I didn't know what they meant; once I'd nailed the brewing parameters, it had no bitterness at all.

Many of them can be quite unforgiving in terms of how much tolerance you get with the parameters. There's a real knack to it.

[Oni]

I've never had a Chinese green that was bitter unless it was brewed incorrectly.

Teasource had one once that I was nuts about. The owner and staff were surprised when I raved about it -- they said most people thought it too bitter. I said I didn't know what they meant; once I'd nailed the brewing parameters, it had no bitterness at all.

Many of them can be quite unforgiving in terms of how much tolerance you get with the parameters. There's a real knack to it.

Those who got En Shi Yu Lu bitter clearly overbrewed it, they most probably used glass method, and root, it was wrong, this tea needs to be made like sencha, 1 minute first infusion at 70 C, they most probably made it with 80 C water and 5 min plus infusion.

[tea-awed]

I've had a few Chinese greens that had a pleasing bitter edge but maybe my opinion shouldn't count coz I'm a young sheng pu drinker

[Streak]

I really love this forum - everyone is so helpful
Thank you for all the replies!

So I was obviously way off about Chinese greens (and even sencha)!

Xell, I did try some sencha, but it was a cold brew version from Den's Tea that was mixed with matcha (comes in tea bags). I quite liked the flavor, but it was a lot more bitter than I expected, especially for a cold brew. In light of your post I'm guessing the matcha's the culprit, not the sencha itself.

Entropy, I was almost embarrassed to admit that my gyo came from Teavana... I know the quality of their teas doesn't align well with their inflated prices. I will definitely try out jingteashop, especially since you and JRS22 both recommended it!

JRS22, I'm glad to hear from someone else who is very sensitive to any bitter flavor in teas. It's so difficult to judge subjective things like flavors, and it occurred to me that the cold-brew sencha I tried earlier would probably not seem all that bitter to someone else. For me, though, it's unpleasant enough that I rarely drink it, despite the convenience. I'll be looking into both of those vendors, and I'll be sure to watch the harvest dates.

Oni, thank you for the suggestion - a "Chinese gyokuro" is pretty much exactly what I am looking for! (Although now I can't wait to try other Chinese greens as well) Brief digression: your posts were very influential in my decision to buy some banko clay tea pots last fall

Chasm, yes, I think I have the brewing parameters dialed in pretty well - at the very least, I won't be brewing with water that's too hot. If anything, I probably risk brewing with water that's not hot enough to extract all the flavor, but it sounds like I'll have some room to experiment.

tea-awed, I've read so many sentiments similar to yours: "pleasing bitter edge" that gave me the impression that Chinese greens were universally bitter. I just didn't realize it was only a matter of brewing to get (or avoid) that taste. Is young sheng pu inherently bitter or can that also be brewed for a milder taste? I have some samples from YunnanSourcing.

[tea-awed]

I really love this forum - everyone is so helpful
Thank you for all the replies!

So I was obviously way off about Chinese greens (and even sencha)!

Xell, I did try some sencha, but it was a cold brew version from Den's Tea that was mixed with matcha (comes in tea bags). I quite liked the flavor, but it was a lot more bitter than I expected, especially for a cold brew. In light of your post I'm guessing the matcha's the culprit, not the sencha itself.

Entropy, I was almost embarrassed to admit that my gyo came from Teavana... I know the quality of their teas doesn't align well with their inflated prices. I will definitely try out jingteashop, especially since you and JRS22 both recommended it!

JRS22, I'm glad to hear from someone else who is very sensitive to any bitter flavor in teas. It's so difficult to judge subjective things like flavors, and it occurred to me that the cold-brew sencha I tried earlier would probably not seem all that bitter to someone else. For me, though, it's unpleasant enough that I rarely drink it, despite the convenience. I'll be looking into both of those vendors, and I'll be sure to watch the harvest dates.

Oni, thank you for the suggestion - a "Chinese gyokuro" is pretty much exactly what I am looking for! (Although now I can't wait to try other Chinese greens as well) Brief digression: your posts were very influential in my decision to buy some banko clay tea pots last fall

Chasm, yes, I think I have the brewing parameters dialed in pretty well - at the very least, I won't be brewing with water that's too hot. If anything, I probably risk brewing with water that's not hot enough to extract all the flavor, but it sounds like I'll have some room to experiment.

tea-awed, I've read so many sentiments similar to yours: "pleasing bitter edge" that gave me the impression that Chinese greens were universally bitter. I just didn't realize it was only a matter of brewing to get (or avoid) that taste. Is young sheng pu inherently bitter or can that also be brewed for a milder taste? I have some samples from YunnanSourcing.

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression. As Entropyembrace said above
most Chinese greens are light sweet and floral when brewed properly. I tend to push them a bit as that slight bitterness seems to me to balance the taste.
About sheng pu it's hard for me to say. If you brew it "western style" someone else may have better advice because I never have done it that way.
My experience with young sheng pu cong fu style is that it is hard to achieve 0% bitterness at least for the first few brews. If bitterness is a problem you might want to use a gaiwan because it has such a quick pour and you can avoid much of the bitterness in the first few infusions. A good sheng should balance out after a few.
Samples from YS are big enough(25gms) that you have room to experiment.
At least for me, that is part of the fun

[olivierco]

The gyokuro I'm drinking is from Teavana, so probably not the highest grade, but it's definitely on the sweeter side and it's not at all bitter. Are there any Chinese greens with similar qualities?

I wouldn't trust Teavana's gyokuro, especially considering their brewing instructions:

Use 1 teaspoon of tea per 8oz of water. Heat water to 175 degrees and steep for 45 seconds to 1 minute (no longer than one minute). For stronger flavor use more tea leaves. 2oz of tea equals 25-30 teaspoons.

It might even be kabusecha and not real gyokuro as they advise to brew it at 175°F (in fact they give similar brewing instructions for their sencha).

[Chip]

The gyokuro I'm drinking is from Teavana, so probably not the highest grade, but it's definitely on the sweeter side and it's not at all bitter. Are there any Chinese greens with similar qualities?

I wouldn't trust Teavana's gyokuro, especially considering their brewing instructions:

Use 1 teaspoon of tea per 8oz of water. Heat water to 175 degrees and steep for 45 seconds to 1 minute (no longer than one minute). For stronger flavor use more tea leaves. 2oz of tea equals 25-30 teaspoons.

It might even be kabusecha and not real gyokuro as they advise to brew it at 175°F (in fact they give similar brewing instructions for their sencha).

I am sure it is kabusecha, unfortunately too common of a practice ... subbing kabuse for the real deal.

[Chasm]

I am sure it is kabusecha, unfortunately too common of a practice ... subbing kabuse for the real deal.

Good to know. When I'm ready to try gyokuro for real, I'll probably stick to the Chip-endorsed choices.

[Streak]

I am sure it is kabusecha, unfortunately too common of a practice ... subbing kabuse for the real deal.

Good to know. When I'm ready to try gyokuro for real, I'll probably stick to the Chip-endorsed choices.

Ditto that, Chasm.

I had initially intended to buy gyokuro from Den's Teas (which, if I recall correctly, had Chip's stamp of approval) but it had been out of stock for awhile. And as irked as I am that I apparently have yet to try real gyokuro even though I've bought it from 2 sources , I feel really confident now about branching out and trying some "working class" greens. (Only from here on out I hope to also be paying working class prices for them!)

[Chasm]

The thing is, I like kabusecha. I just want honesty in what I'm getting.