Zi Sha clay types vs. tea usage?

[Ethaneeze]

Hey there. I searched the site for topics concerning this issue, but I had no luck finding them. So, sorry if this is a repetition.

I am relatively new into the world of yixing.

I just had a question about zi sha clay types and if there were any suggested teas for each color/style (Hong Ni, Hei Ni, Zi Ni, Duan Ni, Lu Ni), barring firing temperature and pot shape.

Actually, any information regarding the usage and utility of the different clay types would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[chrl42]

Names of clay are just a name

Zisha is a sandy clay (as opposed muddy clay) from Jiangsu, China with beautiful color and texture that matches well with tea.

Before starting 'matching', first thing to do is to find a reputable vendor. Because current zisha market is a mess-up. Try to find a vendor that uses a real Zisha clay, otherwise all these 'matching' could be a non-sense.

As far as my opinion, I personally like to drink Puerh with Qing Shui Ni/Zi Ni/Duan Ni, porous clays.

Porosity is one thing to check up, how to check the porosity, my method is to close the lid after washing (when water hasn't faded out), porous clay water will be gone in 2 days or so (as quick as hours), if water is still there after 3 days I think as none-porous clay/none-real zisha/fired at too high temp,,,,,but that's just my way,,,others please share yours

I tend to use Zhuni or crytallized clays for Oolong

For green teas, I find porcelain Gaiwan just fine.

~~C.

[tingjunkie]

Sorry, but there really aren't any such clay/tea pairing rules. For example, I have a hong ni, a zisha, and a pin zi ni pot which all work very well for Wuyi oolongs. It has more to do with the porosity, firing, shape and wall thickness. I'd start with the Yixing Showoff topic, but there are lots of threads to be found. I think Jing Tea Shop's Yixing section is also a good place to begin seeing patterns as their pairing recommendations seem pretty solid. Good luck on your trip down the rabbit hole.

[Chip]

I don't know much about pairing teapot to tea based on type of clay used in the teapot.
Aaron

[Ethaneeze]

Ah, well thanks anyway.

Perhaps, then, since I embarked on this journey for knowledge anyway, would someone be able to tell me the origins of each clay type?

Maybe there is a different mineral makeup of each clay that can help me to figure out the utility?

(It can't just be all aesthetic preference, or can it?)

[wyardley]

(It can't just be all aesthetic preference, or can it?)

Just because it's not all aesthetic preference doesn't mean it can be determined scientifically. I think what folks are trying to point out is that it's more an art than a science, and the difference we're talking about here are very subtle.

Guang @ Hou De put something together based on his own experiences. I'm sure this is the kind of thing you're looking for, so maybe it will help.
http://houdeblog.com/oldblog/index.php? ... 002-163533

Some pots do give better results with certain teas. Some of this is probably due to shape or thickness, some of it may be due to the temperature the clay was fired at, type of clay etc. And some of it may, in fact, be aesthetic or functional. But again, keep in mind these are very small differences, and it will take a lot of time (and experimentation) before you will be able to even perceive them, let alone determine which is better.

There's definitely conventional wisdom about certain types of clays and certain shapes, and if you look through the archives, you'll see some of that. You can decide how much stock you want to put in this kind of thing. I think in some cases, knowing these conventions is actually a disadvantage...

Maybe there is a different mineral makeup of each clay that can help me to figure out the utility?

http://teadrunk.org/viewtopic.php?id=47 is one place to start. But honestly, the fact that you are even asking this question indicates to me that you're thinking about this the wrong way. Do you really think that knowing red clays have a high amount of iron will help you figure out what kind of tea they're best suited for?

To put it differently, if you can tell that a pot brings out the best in a tea by tasting it, the other information doesn't really matter. On the flip side, if you can't tell that a teapot brings out the best in a tea, then what's the point of figuring out what type of pot is objectively best for a tea. This approach requires a lot of experimentation, especially at first, but I think it's also the best approach if you're really interested in carefully pairing tea and teapot.

My personal approach is a little more intuitive / eclectic than that.

Functional considerations are also important - if the tea leaves don't fit in the pot, or if the leaves tend to be very broken but the pot has no built in filter... well these are all also things to consider. Some types of tea can be very unpleasant if overbrewed; for these types of teas, a pot which pours quickly is probably a good idea.

There are also a number of other threads about pairing teapot / tea, clay types, etc.

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?p=59561
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8773

The comment in the second link about preferring a better quality pot that's not as well matched is also important. I think finding a good pot should be primary, vs. trying to find a specific shape / clay type that you believe will benefit a specific tea.

[chrl42]

Ah, well thanks anyway.

Perhaps, then, since I embarked on this journey for knowledge anyway, would someone be able to tell me the origins of each clay type?

Maybe there is a different mineral makeup of each clay that can help me to figure out the utility?

(It can't just be all aesthetic preference, or can it?)

Yixing clay is basically from layers of sediment that's developed over countless years, near Lake Tai. Inside those layers, very small amount was mined, a selected one, high-quality clay that goes well with tea drinking and owning. There are many comparisons between Yixing clay vs other clays, on the clay composition, it shows rich mineral amounts of Al/Si/Fe, and the characteristics lay in halfway between ceramic and common clay wares.

It's a very complicated subject, other factor of it is that Yixing clay is equipped with a high rate of plasticity, so unlike many claywares are wheel-thrown, many Yixing teapots are entirely hand-made, it enables to a higher artistic expression...

Yixing teapot has a long history and heavy followers from all over the world, it's more complicated than one book...one thing to add, try to avoid Yixing clays filled with chemical oxide dyes, first it could ruin the clay composition and not seasoned well, second is health problem

[Ethaneeze]

Thank you.

I don't think wanted the knowledge of the chemical makeup for practical use. I just wanted it to have some history on the origin of the different clays.

I totally agree that experience and preference is priority. I always have that perspective with tea, and its preparation especially.

[chrl42]

History is that Zhou Gao Qi of Qing dynasty said, Tian Qing Ni is the greatest Yixing clay, and Shi Huang Ni is mined from 'where that is not exposed to sunshine', which is Zhaozhuang Zhuni.

Many clays of old times were mined from outer layer, coming to 50's, as that mountain became flat from mining, goverment used huge equipment in order to mine a basement of Huanglong mountain, which is no.4 mine, hence quality was high. It's clear during old time, names of clay weren't clear.

So-called Di Cao Qing, Qing Hui Ni and so...are recent usage..Yixing clay is few and compositions of clay differs inch by inch, so clay names are not so practical, plus lots of clays are mixed, to enhance the quality, to defend its shortage and so on..I don't know I answered correct

[bagua7]

Here's a topic on this forum about the same question you are raising:

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=3480

Abut your question, a general guideline you could follow is the following one:

Puerh: Zi Ni, Qing Shui Ni, Duan ni or Di Cao Qing. Flatter shape (shi piao is an excellent vessel for puerhs) and thick pots.
Green Oolong: Zhuni, rounder, taller shape, thinner or medium walled; Chaozhou.
Phoenix oolong: Chaozhou.
Wuyi rock tea: Zhuni, flatter shape, medium thick.
Red tea: Di Cao Qing, taller shape, medium thick & thick walled.

Then specific rules apply to certain teas and their age; in this particular instance, using "Tingjunkie's" expression: good luck on your trip down the rabbit hole. Things can get quite complicated if you decide to follow this path...ignorance is bliss.