. So this now brings me to ask, does anyone have information about China's famous kilns? What sort of ceramics they produced? What differentiated them from one another? And finally why do people favour Ru Kiln products over say Yue Kiln?Sep 27th, '11, 18:24
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China's Famous Kilns
I was browsing through the "Celadon Show and Tell" and noticed that most people had Ru Kiln teapots and teacups. After awhile of browsing through the thread I decided to see what shops were offering and noticed that there are several famous kilns in China that produce celadon and ceramic products such as the Yue Kilns . So this now brings me to ask, does anyone have information about China's famous kilns? What sort of ceramics they produced? What differentiated them from one another? And finally why do people favour Ru Kiln products over say Yue Kiln?
. So this now brings me to ask, does anyone have information about China's famous kilns? What sort of ceramics they produced? What differentiated them from one another? And finally why do people favour Ru Kiln products over say Yue Kiln?
Re: China's Famous Kilns
Many of the famous kilns reached their peak during the Song Dynasty, circa 11th/12th century. Ru ware was reserved for royalty and routinely goes for very high prices at auction for work from that period. You can google Song ceramics and get as much information and illustrations about these wares to give you some background.
Re: China's Famous Kilns
Modern Ru Kiln isn´t the same as the 12th century Ru Kiln, today it´s mass produced, affordable and readily available.
Re: China's Famous Kilns
I don't think I implied they were the same. The poster was asking for background. Since the kilns became famous during Song dynasty, this is the place to start one's education. The subject is too big for cursory comments so I am pointing to sources where the poster can learn what the differences are and why.entropyembrace wrote:Modern Ru Kiln isn´t the same as the 12th century Ru Kiln, today it´s mass produced, affordable and readily available.
Sep 29th, '11, 01:48
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Re: China's Famous Kilns
I doubt that was directed at you, Tead off.
I think the main point is to let OP know that the pieces advertised as 'ru kiln wares' are really...not. The original ru kiln is no longer in existence, and the glaze formula was entirely lost. These modern reproductions, although advertised as ru kiln wares, are just attempts to replicate the glaze. The only way to get your hands on ru kiln wares is through the antiques market, which is insane.
EDIT: that said, some of the artists doing replicas have produced some really pretty pieces! hunt around here and you'll find some photos. Also, IPT has a bunch of replicas from two good taiwan artists doing this (chinese tea culture is his shop name)
I think the main point is to let OP know that the pieces advertised as 'ru kiln wares' are really...not. The original ru kiln is no longer in existence, and the glaze formula was entirely lost. These modern reproductions, although advertised as ru kiln wares, are just attempts to replicate the glaze. The only way to get your hands on ru kiln wares is through the antiques market, which is insane.
EDIT: that said, some of the artists doing replicas have produced some really pretty pieces! hunt around here and you'll find some photos. Also, IPT has a bunch of replicas from two good taiwan artists doing this (chinese tea culture is his shop name)
Last edited by the_economist on Sep 29th, '11, 11:10, edited 1 time in total.
Re: China's Famous Kilns
I wasn't sure who it was directed at.
Like you say, the real stuff is untouchable by mere mortals and has nothing to do with the modern repros. Real Ru was only fired at a particular kiln. No one should be using that name to sell modern wares in a particular color. What to do?!
Like you say, the real stuff is untouchable by mere mortals and has nothing to do with the modern repros. Real Ru was only fired at a particular kiln. No one should be using that name to sell modern wares in a particular color. What to do?!
Sep 30th, '11, 15:22
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Re: China's Famous Kilns
Many modern celadons/porcelains are not the same as the ancient ones with the same name. But the ancient ones weren't all expensive or rare in their own eras. Many of them are rare and expensive today only because they are old, and very often one can't really tell an old one from a seemingly old one. Many of them are not that rare even today.
In several dynasties, the kilns are categorized into royal kilns (for royal families and government officers) and folks' kilns (for the rest of the people). Royal kiln products are very carefully made with almost no flaws. But some folks' kiln products could be very creative and interesting.
About why ru kiln is preferred compared with yue kiln, my understanding is, first, yue started much earlier than ru and ru represents more advanced technology and overall better quality. Secondly, ru has more distinguished characteristics and therefore it's much harder to fake ru than faking yue - not that I could tell the authentic from the fake for either ru or yue
But as for values, it always varies from piece to piece and up to subjective preferences. And some yue kiln products are more sought after than ru kiln ones.
In several dynasties, the kilns are categorized into royal kilns (for royal families and government officers) and folks' kilns (for the rest of the people). Royal kiln products are very carefully made with almost no flaws. But some folks' kiln products could be very creative and interesting.
About why ru kiln is preferred compared with yue kiln, my understanding is, first, yue started much earlier than ru and ru represents more advanced technology and overall better quality. Secondly, ru has more distinguished characteristics and therefore it's much harder to fake ru than faking yue - not that I could tell the authentic from the fake for either ru or yue
But as for values, it always varies from piece to piece and up to subjective preferences. And some yue kiln products are more sought after than ru kiln ones.
Re: China's Famous Kilns
Of all old wares, Ru ware is certainly the most special if only because of its rarity. Just a small number of pieces are in private hands, and only a few museums hold it in their collections. Between the V&A and the British Museum (which now includes the Percival David collection), London is the place to see Ru ware.
It's beyond thinking that anyone's going to come across a genuine piece of Ru ware in an antique shop.
Modern production of replica Ru ware began in Ruzhou, Henan, following the Communist Revolution, supposedly at the suggestion of Zhou Enlai. Current production there is all gas-fired, rather glassy, and has a mass-produced feel, even though sold at art pottery prices. Better replicas are made elsewhere in Henan.
As a matter of custom, most sellers simply refer to modern reproductions as 汝瓷 Ruci "Ru ware" without distinguishing that they're reproductions. No one could really be fooled, and I don't find the custom offensive. The same practice applies to 钧瓷 Junci "Jun ware" and other traditional Chinese glazes.
(If the OP wants background, then Rose Kerr's Song Dynasty Ceramics would make a great start.)
It's beyond thinking that anyone's going to come across a genuine piece of Ru ware in an antique shop.
Modern production of replica Ru ware began in Ruzhou, Henan, following the Communist Revolution, supposedly at the suggestion of Zhou Enlai. Current production there is all gas-fired, rather glassy, and has a mass-produced feel, even though sold at art pottery prices. Better replicas are made elsewhere in Henan.
As a matter of custom, most sellers simply refer to modern reproductions as 汝瓷 Ruci "Ru ware" without distinguishing that they're reproductions. No one could really be fooled, and I don't find the custom offensive. The same practice applies to 钧瓷 Junci "Jun ware" and other traditional Chinese glazes.
(If the OP wants background, then Rose Kerr's Song Dynasty Ceramics would make a great start.)
Oct 2nd, '11, 13:14
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Re: China's Famous Kilns
Sorry for the delayed reply, thanks to everyone for contributing. I've gained quite a bit of info just reading these posts and will probably try to find that book that Dingshu mentioned.
Does anyone know of any sites other than RJ Teahouse that carry 'modern ru ware'? I found guotea.cn to carry a very large collection (just browsing at them made me drool haha) of the modern ru ware, it's just so disappointing that they don't ship internationally
Does anyone know of any sites other than RJ Teahouse that carry 'modern ru ware'? I found guotea.cn to carry a very large collection (just browsing at them made me drool haha) of the modern ru ware, it's just so disappointing that they don't ship internationally
Oct 2nd, '11, 15:57
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Re: China's Famous Kilns
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dragon-Tea-Hou ... 34.c0.m322tieguanyinfan wrote:
Does anyone know of any sites other than RJ Teahouse that carry 'modern ru ware'? I found guotea.cn to carry a very large collection (just browsing at them made me drool haha) of the modern ru ware, it's just so disappointing that they don't ship internationally
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dragon-Tea-Hou ... 34.c0.m322
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Dragon-Tea-Hou ... 34.c0.m322
Re: China's Famous Kilns
Just a caution that not everything said to have a replica Ru glaze does.
In my view, anything that purports to be Ru ware should be fired on stilts, like the original ware.
Chemical treatment is often applied to eliminate the glassy sheen common on modern gas-fired wares, with wax then used to restore a bit of the lustre. It can be hard to detect this in a shop, much less online. But if your ware doesn't look quite as nice after it's been washed, that's why.
Similarly, a bit of coloring might be rubbed in to bring out the crackle.
If you search the characters 汝瓷 on Google Images you'll get quite a few photos of modern Ru ware.
In my view, anything that purports to be Ru ware should be fired on stilts, like the original ware.
Chemical treatment is often applied to eliminate the glassy sheen common on modern gas-fired wares, with wax then used to restore a bit of the lustre. It can be hard to detect this in a shop, much less online. But if your ware doesn't look quite as nice after it's been washed, that's why.
Similarly, a bit of coloring might be rubbed in to bring out the crackle.
If you search the characters 汝瓷 on Google Images you'll get quite a few photos of modern Ru ware.