As promised here are the picture of the pots

[Maxwell2079]

Hello everybody, as I promised ,sorry for taking so long to create this post, when I received the pots from shouzhen I was going to show them to you.

The clay works pretty well improving the tea as expected, however I haven't compared them with my other cheaper pots . I will do that eventually.
The pots have craftsmanship flaws, some serious ones and some not so bad. But for the price I was expecting much better craftsmanship.

I ask for a compensation to the vendor but she replied that it wasn't possible to gave me a new pot or some teaware in compensation.
After spending 518 USD for 2 pots. I bought two fully handmade pots made by Jianming Cheng.
When I ask for an exchange of the fully hand made pots I was told that if the pots broke on their way it was my loss so I decided to keep them.

So here is the lixing:

bad finished inside the pot

P1050274.JPG (58.51 KiB) Viewed 2499 times

twisted spout

P1050280.JPG (38.67 KiB) Viewed 2499 times

spout not leveled with body

P1050283.JPG (35.53 KiB) Viewed 2499 times

Handle is tilted but don't have a good picture of that to show you. And the lid fit loosely.

Here is the duo qiu:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/p1050264i.jpg/

It has a twisted handle the rest is ok. Except for a minor detail on the interior of the pot

Sorry but can't add more attachments.

Since I refrain from telling the whole story and the vendor refunded 15 USD (I know It was't enough, anyway...) and she politely asked for an apology.
I decided to take the risk and bought two more pots, semi-handmade by Jianming Cheng, each pot was 189 USD.

All in all the craftsmanship was better but still showing flaws.
That is why I eventually I decided to post this since after the problem with the first 2 pots it is even more unfair to receive them like this.

Fangu:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/100/p1050740v.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/p1050748h.jpg/ (twisted handle)

Han bian:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/p1050711j.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/p1050713g.jpg/ (twisted handle)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/44 ... 757fi.jpg/ (tilted knob on lid)

The semi hand made pots were better in craftsmanship. So If I can give you any advice when buying to this vendor is do not go for the fully hand made pot. But be aware that you can get some flaws in craftsmanship with semi-hand made pot anyway...
The fangu was the best in terms of craftsmanship.

I wasn't sure for the price I paid what flaws were acceptable and which ones not. So I ask for an advice to some knowledgeable users here by PM.
So thank you again guys!!

Hope this post may be useful to some of you.

[MarshalN]

I wouldn't call it "bad finish". That's not terrible. The spout not lining up, and worse, the weird proportions of the pot, is more serious.

[odarwin]

in my opinion, thats a LOT of money for those pots!
i got 5 pots from them but didnt have the same problem as yours, or maybe i just didnt inspect the pots that meticulously.
but after reading this post, im anxious to take a look at my pots and see...

[wyardley]

I ordered a couple of pots from them recently, more out of curiosity than anything else (not full hand-made).

Some folks I've talked to offline have been relatively happy with the clay, worksmanship, and finish of pots purchased from them. I'm just curious - did the vendor say explicitly that the pots were directly made by Cheng Jianming, or is it possible they were made under his supervision (posting close-ups of any seals might help)? I am guessing that any half-handmade pots would generally be made (and finished) by apprentices. I remember seeing a post by finddream2020 that mentioned pots being studio-made, but I can't seem to find the link.

I do wonder if there might be something getting slightly misrepresented here, whether intentionally or not. Based on the flaws in those pots and the price (even of their custom full hand made pots), I would assume they're studio pots. Even so, some of those flaws seem problematic.

I did try emailing the listed contact at http://www.cjmzs.cn/ just to see if they could comment on whether the other site is truly authorized and representing things accurately, but the email address is no longer valid. Many of the photos are the same between the two sites, though some of the clay type descriptions and sizes are different (for the same photograph). Many of the pages do say "Made by Cheng Jian Ming" but I think that may refer to the designer of the pot and the seal on the bottom, not that the pot is personally made by him -- so this could be a communication and / or translation issue.

[chrl42]

I wouldn't call it "bad finish". That's not terrible. The spout not lining up, and worse, the weird proportions of the pot, is more serious.

+1

[odarwin]

Bro, ive checked my pots from them and didnt find anything that you were complaining about... If you really are very ungappy with the pots, then i suggest you try to talk to them again. I do understand that you are frustrated, i too would be... I can forgive the "bad finish" but the bent spout and misaligned handle is really hard to swallow.

[paul haigh]

Spouts actually twist during firing because of the platelet nature of clay (so called "memory" effect"). The amount of twist in that picture would probably not effect pour, but when you spend that kind of money- you get to say what you want! (I would like a closeup of the business end of the spout- inside finish looked pretty rough)

The same effect may cause a whole pot body to twist causing the handle to bend. This is usually accounted for before firing by applying a small amount of the opposite twist, but sometimes it is over compensated as well. I have this happen on mugs occasionally.

A spout should always be above the fill level of the pot- if not, it is the teapot fatal flaw. That spout exited above the fill level, but if it is not in keeping with the pot style then it's more of an issue. It was not a lot of difference and may have been a sagging spout as the clay approached plasticity at high temps.

The clay left under the gallery was unacceptable and I won't even address it. General roughness- I'm not sure about in this style. Roughish finish- more surface area for that developing flavor??

All of this is by way of explanation, not an excuse for the condition of a pot on which you dropped a lot of cabbage and from which you rightfully expected a lot!

[Stentor]

Some great insight, Paul. You're a great addition to the forum!
I went and compared the spout designs on my Japanese pots which have that perfect pour. Sure enough, spouts are above fill level.

[paul haigh]

Some great insight, Paul. You're a great addition to the forum!
I went and compared the spout designs on my Japanese pots which have that perfect pour. Sure enough, spouts are above fill level.

Thanks Stentor! To be clear- a spout that exits below the fill level is a flaw simply because when the pot is filled, it causes a spill out the spout.

It doesn't necessarily make the spout pour any better or worse. However- if you encounter a pot with that flaw, you should probably be suspect of the experience of the potter. (I do know that there may be some traditional vessels that have this characteristic as part of their design)

[Maxwell2079]

Hi, thanks for your reply guys. (grammar mistake edited, english is not my mother tongue,sorry).

Marhsaln, could you explain me a little bit further what do you mean by "weird proportions"? I missed that one. Do you think that the handle is too big for example or body fatter than usual at the bottom and more thin (than usual) on top?

Odarwin, I am happy that your pots are all right. The purpose of posting this is to make people aware that this may happen when buying to this vendor. Sharing info and protecting each other as customers is a must I think ( besides I promised In other posts I was going to post the pots when they arrived).
Luckily, not everyone have this problem, I talked privately with some users who bought from this vendor and they haven´t this problem.

Believe me, I tried to get a refund and or compensation and all I got was 15 USD and an apology after spending 896 USD in the 4 pots (not adding shipping)

Wyardley, I contact directly the daughter of Cheng Jianming, nick named finddream2020 (Chen). Through PM in teachat. After exchanging several mails I decided on the clay and explicitly asked the pots to be fully hand-made by her father.
After receiving the pots I asked, explicitly, if the pots were really made by her father and she replied me that they were made by him.
I am at work right so I can´t post photos here. I will post the seals tonight.
I ask for the semi-hand made pots to be made by her father too . I do know since Chen told me that her mother makes pots and there is another guy making pots for them too. However, in the website it is specified who make each pot, so if semi-hand made pots are not made by the master, the info under "the manufactured by" has to be modified. However, I won´t be surprised if the semi-hand made were not made by her father. And for the craftsmanship I bet the the fully hand-made were not made by him.
Either way I am very disappointed and won´t be buying again to this vendor.

I am curious what do you mean by "I do wonder if there might be something getting slightly misrepresented here ,whether intentionally or not"?

Paul haigh, nice info indeed! I don´t remember having the problem of spilling water out the spout, since the spout is not straight that is tricky. However, it does make sense. I will try it and let you know. Thanks for the info.
Someone suggested that the rough finished on the interior of the pot may cause bacteria or mold to grow in the crevice if I don't let the pot dry properly. Hopefully, that won't happen, I always let my pots dry properly.

[Alex]

My Yixing experience is very limited (only a handful of pots) None were even close to though posts in flaws in fact they are all near perfect. For that money I'd be sending them back.

I've seen someone complaining about this potter/vendor before on here with basically the same sort of thing.

[MarshalN]

I'm only talking about the pear shaped pot with the proportion - basically, it's oddly shaped, and it looks funny. The size of the handle/spout and the body don't fit.

[Maxwell2079]

Hi Alex, thanks for the comment.
I think the post you are referring to is this one: http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9424

The justification in that case for the flaw by Chen was:

i think it is good but not perfect, because this pot is made by my father's assistant. but i promise it has good quality and pure zi qie ni

I wonder how can she justified the flaws in my pots now. Especially the lixing that seems to has the worse craftsmanship.

This is a very original email replied of her, is a good one by the way:

I'm sorry that the li xing pot makes you so upset.

I cherish our good reputation, but trust me, all the pots are made by hand (the half handmade teapots are also made by hand, only one step that the body is shaped by mold), so some little flaws are inevitable.
In China, we don't take some flaws as problems. I'm honest with every customer as I said before, I did not see that line (speaking about inside of the lixing) even when I send the li xing out. My father worked very late at night for your two pots, he even made two li xing pots to allow me to select one for you since this is the first time he made hand-made li xing teapot, and I did select that one for you

Thanks Marshaln, this is my first lixing, so I wasn´t sure what do you meant.

[MarshalN]

If this is the first lixing he made, this might be the problem.

[Alex]

No this post was someone that bought a 150$ + pot that was custom made and had (I think) a poor lid fit and something else. But there was photos and everything and it put me off ordering. That and their poor email service. All just seemed really flaky to me so I didnt order.

The post I'm referring to would have be 2 years old. Can't find it now but this thread was like deja vu