Hong NI or Duan Ni Clay

[jbu2]

i am considering buying oolong teapot from Taiwan , what is better :
Duan Ni Clay Teapot 150 ML made from Duan Ni Clay .

Duo Tzi Red Clay Teapot 200 ML from Hong Ni .

what is better Hong Ni or Duan Ni Clay ?

is 70$ including shipping is a good price ?

[futurebird]

Neither is really "better" they have different qualities. In my experience duan ni (if its online) is hardly ever the real thing.

Hong ni is something I know less about I'll let others speak to it.

[wyardley]

Even with a photo, I think people will have a hard time assessing your pot online. Without seeing it or knowing more details about it, it's impossible to give you any advice.

[jbu2]

i know that, that's why i asked about the clay and not about the pot, which clay is better and why ? and is it worth ~70$ ?
what kind of benefit i get from Hong Ni pot and what from Duan Ni , none the less hare are the picture :

Hong Ni:
http://www.terradelte.com/wp-content/ga ... 35650a.jpg

Duan Ni Clay:
http://www.terradelte.com/wp-content/ga ... t-1505.jpg

[tst]

This is like asking, "Which bear is best?"

It really depends on the exact tea you're planning on brewing in the pot (what kind of oolong, what level of roasting, etc.).

On top of that, generally, the consensus is that the pot chooses the tea. So even though many people have had good luck brewing X type of oolong in X clay, every pot is different. Is it a high-fired pot? Medium fired? Is the clay really sandy?

There are too many variables and in the end, most will suggest that you be sure to buy a high quality pot, then worry about pairing it. I would suggest that if you have your heart set on one of these pots, buy the pot that is of higher quality. If you have any doubts, I would hold off on buying either of the pots. Do more research, read more, save up, and buy the highest quality pot you can afford.

I'd rather have 1 pot that is of really high quality than 100 pots of low quality, but that's just me.

[Maitre_Tea]

This is like asking, "Which bear is best?"

black bear

[bagua7]

200mL pot for how many people? If it is for yourself then it would be too big.

By the way, using the advanced search function is always helpful:

1. http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... se+oolongs

2. http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... gs#p213304

3. http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... gs#p207389

4. http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... gs#p164826

G'luck.

[MIKE_B]

This is like asking, "Which bear is best?"

black bear

Better than Pandas???

[gingkoseto]

Usually teapots looking good on photos may or may not be good. And teapots looking suspicious on photos are very likely to be bad.
These photos are nice and don't raise any alarms in my eyes in terms of clay quality. As for shape and crafting details, it's not easy to tell from a few photos.
The Duan Ni pot is made by Pan Bohong. I like her a lot and think her teapots are way better than many other yixing makers of the same price level or slightly higher price level. Meantime, she is not famous to the degree of being counterfeited (yet). So I would guess (and only guess) the duan ni pot is really made by Pan and of decent quality.
The hong ni one (hong ni = red clay) looks nice on the photo too. It also depends on the context and how you feel about the vendor overall.

In terms of clay categories, I think both are ok for green style oolong. The red clay is more versatile. The green-gray duan ni is ok for greenish teas but could gain a "dirty" look if you use it for highly "staining" teas - but that's only a problem if you don't want "dirty" look. That would be a problem for me.

[Maitre_Tea]

This is like asking, "Which bear is best?"

black bear

Better than Pandas???

er, it's a reference to The Office

[David R.]

This is like asking, "Which bear is best?"

black bear

[Tead Off]

Usually teapots looking good on photos may or may not be good. And teapots looking suspicious on photos are very likely to be bad.
These photos are nice and don't raise any alarms in my eyes in terms of clay quality. As for shape and crafting details, it's not easy to tell from a few photos.
The Duan Ni pot is made by Pan Bohong. I like her a lot and think her teapots are way better than many other yixing makers of the same price level or slightly higher price level. Meantime, she is not famous to the degree of being counterfeited (yet). So I would guess (and only guess) the duan ni pot is really made by Pan and of decent quality.
The hong ni one (hong ni = red clay) looks nice on the photo too. It also depends on the context and how you feel about the vendor overall.

In terms of clay categories, I think both are ok for green style oolong. The red clay is more versatile. The green-gray duan ni is ok for greenish teas but could gain a "dirty" look if you use it for highly "staining" teas - but that's only a problem if you don't want "dirty" look. That would be a problem for me.

Aesthetically, the duan ni is a nicely made pot using a clay that will probably be more porous than the Hong ni, which looks high fired and burnished on the exterior.

Performance-wise, conventional wisdom would favor Taiwan oolongs with the Hong ni.

Just to add some confusion to all this, in personal emails with Hojo, he thinks duanni might have the least beneficial effect on most teas. This probably ties in with his insistence on a high iron content in the clays which duanni doesn't have compared with zhuni and other red clays including zisha.

Hojo also has his theory that porcelain and bone china could match very well, ie., porcelain teapot/bone china cup in enhancing flavor and body in teas. I can somewhat corroborate this theory with my experience of using Seong il's porcelain teapots with bone china cups. Body and flavor of many teas are enhanced significantly especially with all kinds of oolongs and puerh.

The OP can only listen to all of this and throw a dart, and where it lands will be the beginning of his/her education. Get ready to spend, spend, spend.

[gingkoseto]

The context is always important. The average kiln temperature of duan ni is not lower than most other types of clay (except for the unusual zhu ni). The green-gray duan ni (supposedly the type showed in the photo) even has slightly higher kiln temperature than most other types of duan ni.
The context is important because different kiln temperatures could be used for the same type of clay, for various reasons.
The high fire red clay showed in the photo is a classic favorite for Taiwan high mountain oolong. Ben shan green clay (a type of high end duan ni, not the one showed in the photo) is another classic favorite for Taiwan high mountain oolong. But Ben Shan green clay is more expensive, more rare and more faked. So it's not as much talked about as high fire red clay as a match of greener oolong.

[Tead Off]

The context is always important. The average kiln temperature of duan ni is not lower than most other types of clay (except for the unusual zhu ni). The green-gray duan ni (supposedly the type showed in the photo) even has slightly higher kiln temperature than most other types of duan ni.
The context is important because different kiln temperatures could be used for the same type of clay, for various reasons.
The high fire red clay showed in the photo is a classic favorite for Taiwan high mountain oolong. Ben shan green clay (a type of high end duan ni, not the one showed in the photo) is another classic favorite for Taiwan high mountain oolong. But Ben Shan green clay is more expensive, more rare and more faked. So it's not as much talked about as high fire red clay as a match of greener oolong.

I don't dispute anything you say but it would seem to me that the mineral structure of the clay would have the most meaning as far as affecting a tea. Also, when we talk about these clays, are they Yixing clays or clays found in Taiwan? And then, we come to each drinker's sensitivity to all of this and their subjective experience of what they like. So, I say throw a dart at all the information and start from there and trust your own experience.

[bagua7]

I wouldn't dare to buy Ben Shan Lu Ni pots online. They need to be examined very carefully and purchased from a reputable vendor or Yixing artist, or you'll most likely end up buying a counterfait aka "chemical pot" (easy to spot since they lack the classical particle effect of authentic Yixing clay).

However the firing temperature of ben shan lu ni (as opposed to duan ni) is relatively low.

There are two subtypes of Ben Shan Lu Ni (yellowish and whitish):



More info here:

http://8.etao.com/zisha/thread-91059-67 ... detail.htm?

Note: Even the mainlanders that have those online discussions say they are still learning about the complexity of Yixing clays...imagine for us Westerners living in a totally different cultural context. This is a very risky and expensive game...tread waters carefully; learn as much as you can about this difficult subject.