Yixing lid test?

[Hmm]

Has anyone done the lid test? http://yixing-teapot.com/tips-tricks/yi ... tical-use/

Basically you fill up the pot, then you put your finger on the spout, flipping the pot over. If the lid falls out then your lid isn't tight enough. 3 of my pots fail after a 2 secs or so using cold water. My pots were done by a young artisan (http://www.yxxrtb.com/index1.asp), so I was not expecting the highest quality.

Just wondering if anyone has pots done by a master, and if the lids did indeed stick.

[yalokinh]

That test could be used to determine quality, but its not really important. I think clay matters more than worksmanship, if you have both, its even better!

[wyardley]

One thing to keep in mind about this "test" is that plenty of slipcast / half-hand-made pots will pass it.

This particular version of the test sounds somewhat dangerous to me. I don't really think this matters much, but if you want to test whether the pot is watertight, with most types of pots, you can see whether covering the air hole stops the flow of water.

If you have a pot made by a Yixing master, you probably will not want to subject your pot to this test, regardless of how soft a surface is under the falling lid.

[theredbaron]

Has anyone done the lid test? http://yixing-teapot.com/tips-tricks/yi ... tical-use/

Basically you fill up the pot, then you put your finger on the spout, flipping the pot over. If the lid falls out then your lid isn't tight enough. 3 of my pots fail after a 2 secs or so using cold water. My pots were done by a young artisan (http://www.yxxrtb.com/index1.asp), so I was not expecting the highest quality.

Just wondering if anyone has pots done by a master, and if the lids did indeed stick.

I would not pay much attention to this test. Most of the highly searched after Cultural Revolution period Shui Ping will fail that test, for example. There are other similar tests, such as filling the pot with water, blocking the small hole on the lid with your finger, and when you try to pour the water will stay in the pot, and only be released when you take the finger off the whole.
None of these tests will prove clay quality, which is why the aforementioned Shui Ping are so popular.

[Teaism]

Has anyone done the lid test? http://yixing-teapot.com/tips-tricks/yi ... tical-use/

Basically you fill up the pot, then you put your finger on the spout, flipping the pot over. If the lid falls out then your lid isn't tight enough. 3 of my pots fail after a 2 secs or so using cold water. My pots were done by a young artisan (http://www.yxxrtb.com/index1.asp), so I was not expecting the highest quality.

Just wondering if anyone has pots done by a master, and if the lids did indeed stick.

I would not pay much attention to this test. Most of the highly searched after Cultural Revolution period Shui Ping will fail that test, for example. None of these tests will prove clay quality, which is why the aforementioned Shui Ping are so popular.

Recently there are a lot of shui ping and 70s., 80s., 90s variations pot flooded the market with cheap price and many of them passed this test. I would say if they pass this test, there is a high probablity it is a newly produced pots to imitate the 70s, 80s and 90s pots. A perfect pot can sometimes also mean a mass production moulded pot fired in gas kiln done recently using fabricated clay. Why not? ... they sell very fast and the profit margin is extremely high and with high sale volume, it is a lucrative business.

Clay quality is the most important. I also appreciate the details of different eras e.g. how they make the knob, the holes etc but the imitators already knew these character and reflect into the new pots. It is getting harder to spot a imitation pot, except for the clay.

So be cautious when looking at pots. Go slow and look from all angles...

[theredbaron]

Recently there are a lot of shui ping and 70s., 80s., 90s variations pot flooded the market with cheap price and many of them passed this test. I would say if they pass this test, there is a high probablity it is a newly produced pots to imitate the 70s, 80s and 90s pots. A perfect pot can sometimes also mean a mass production moulded pot fired in gas kiln done recently using fabricated clay. Why not? ... they sell very fast and the profit margin is extremely high and with high sale volume, it is a lucrative business.

Clay quality is the most important. I also appreciate the details of different eras e.g. how they make the knob, the holes etc but the imitators already knew these character and reflect into the new pots. It is getting harder to spot a imitation pot, except for the clay.

So be cautious when looking at pots. Go slow and look from all angles...

Very interesting.
I haven't really looked much at pots for many years as i just don't know enough. I only know that fakes are nowadays very good. I think that to know about tea pots one really has to be able to read Chinese in order to be able to study the background literature necessary, which is not translated into English.
Last time i was in KL though people there told me about markets being flooded with those Shui Ping. I am just glad that i bought mine sometime between 10 and 15 years ago, and had them looked at and verified.
I have one though i am quite sure that it is fake - the deal was too good to be true, and it is somewhat different than the originals. The taste isn't right either.

[Hmm]

Recently there are a lot of shui ping and 70s., 80s., 90s variations pot flooded the market with cheap price and many of them passed this test. I would say if they pass this test, there is a high probablity it is a newly produced pots to imitate the 70s, 80s and 90s pots. A perfect pot can sometimes also mean a mass production moulded pot fired in gas kiln done recently using fabricated clay. Why not? ... they sell very fast and the profit margin is extremely high and with high sale volume, it is a lucrative business.

Clay quality is the most important. I also appreciate the details of different eras e.g. how they make the knob, the holes etc but the imitators already knew these character and reflect into the new pots. It is getting harder to spot a imitation pot, except for the clay.

So be cautious when looking at pots. Go slow and look from all angles...

How does one tell if one has good clay? Does the smell test tell us anything, or does that just tell us whether it was underfired or not. Are we supposed to just rely on the sound test?

I don't really mind having an "imitation" product, so long as the imitation is almost as good as the real thing? Are all the imitation products largely inferior to the real thing?

[Teaism]

Generally there are no fixed rule of thumb but please go slow and learn as much as you can. I started teapot collection in 1990 and seen a lot of older teapots. Many authentic 70s to 90s pots were available that time. Most of them were cheap with authentic and mildly fabricated clay. If you gone through that period your chances are better in spotting authentic clay. If not try to get samples or view them from older collectors. Use magnifying glass 30X to see the structure of the clay and learn to feel and capture the sprit of that time.

The sound of clay cannot really tell. New zhuni clay is actually fabricated clay with complex spelling ingredients and with kaolin or even glass added to give the high pitch sound. Lead can be added to give good shine and fire in much lower temp of 600+ instead of 1200C.

Imitation may be better or worse than the authentic pot but if we can't tell, we are cheating ourselves.

In China there are imitation eggs. The shell is made of gysum and the egg white is made of gelatin and the egg yolk from a mix of exotic chemical. You can learn how to do it from YouTube too.

But eventually it is our own choice to live with.. ...to go for the original copy or the copy of the original....

[etorix]

heh ... my everyday pot is student-made, i know its ok, but im not trying this test on it

my only definite 'master-made' pot isnt getting subjected neither

both stop pour with a finger on the lid-hole

[tingjunkie]

The only thing this "tests" is the gullibility of the buyer.

[chrl42]

One thing to keep in mind about this "test" is that plenty of slipcast / half-hand-made pots will pass it.

This particular version of the test sounds somewhat dangerous to me. I don't really think this matters much, but if you want to test whether the pot is watertight, with most types of pots, you can see whether covering the air hole stops the flow of water.

If you have a pot made by a Yixing master, you probably will not want to subject your pot to this test, regardless of how soft a surface is under the falling lid.

+1

Everytime people say about something coming out of books..I don't know what to say..

like.."oh..this pot is not spout-body-handle horizental..!"

If a master made a lid higher for asthetic reason..spout and handle should be higher than body for balance.

spout-body-handle theory just derived from Weng Hui-dong's book written in ROC..demonstrating good-looking shape of 'Shui Ping'..many people over-interpret this theory applied to every Yixings not only Shui Ping..

just giving an example..

[theredbaron]

How does one tell if one has good clay? Does the smell test tell us anything, or does that just tell us whether it was underfired or not. Are we supposed to just rely on the sound test?

I don't really mind having an "imitation" product, so long as the imitation is almost as good as the real thing? Are all the imitation products largely inferior to the real thing?

All along the history of Yixing pots, famous pots have been copied, also as part of the learning process of apprentice potters, or as sign of appreciation. Famous Ming and Qing pots copied in the ROC period, for example, are highly searched after, and very expensive. But of course far less expensive than the originals.
Fakes though, made with the intent to cheat buyers, are inferior, and can even be hazardous to your health. Artificially created patina can consist of any sort of material. You will be better off with a normal new pot that is simply what it is - a simple new pot.

People look for older pots for several reasons - pure clay, different clay processing methods and traditional firing methods enhance the taste of the tea. That is why the Cultural Revolution Shui Ping are so well loved even though the craftsmanship is mostly sub-standard, and mass produced.


To really know about pots, one has to live for a long time in one of the tea centers, has to study background material (which means to be able to read Chinese), has to have access to serious collectors and experts from whom to learn from, has to spend time in Yixing itself, etc.

All these so-called tests will not help you - it's only proper studying. Everything can be faked, and generally is as well. There is a lot of money in Yixing pots.

I only know what i don't know about Yixing pots.

[wyardley]

In terms of clay quality, time and experience will help, as will exposure to different pots. Trust your senses - not just appearance or smell, but also touch.

[gingkoseto]

A yixing passing lid test (for teapots of specific sizes, shapes and clay textures) is just like a job interviewee with a pair of clean trousers (or a skirt or whatever with equivalent function). You don't praise him for his clean trousers, because, doesn't everybody have clean outfits in your office anyway.

Exceptions could be made for interviewees with IQ>140 and dirty pants. But if you see a dozen interviewees within few days in dirty pants who are claimed to have IQ>140 and demand high salary, there are two possibilities, 1), you are a lucky boss who've attracted genius; 2), your hiring manager sent you arrogant and stupid interviewees with low EQ. Since we didn't see your candidates, it's up to you to decide which type of luck you've fallen in.

If you are told it's common that interviewees wear dirty pants, then your next question might be, did your hiring manager do his homework at all? Wouldn't most dirty-pants interviewees already have itchy resumes as well?

(if you work in IT industry where everybody wears dirty pants, you could replace the clean pants in above paragraphs with t-shirt, shirt or any top of equivalent function )

Edit:
I'm not saying wenge teapots are not good. I'm not suggesting wengge teapots sold by other people are inferior. I'm not affiliated to any seller mentioned in this thread.
I'm thinking this editing is totally unnecessary. But I'm sorry for having to be wordy due to some people's poor reading comprehension or persistence of miscomprehension.

[Suz]

The only thing this "tests" is the gullibility of the buyer.

We should be able to "star" posts. I'd give you a hundred.