Effect of pour speed on flavor?

[Noahwhiteman24]

Hey all! I've been looking for a pot to brew oolongs (not sure if Ali Shan or if Dan Cong will get the honor yet) recently, and I found a shiboridashi I very much like. However, its lip is somewhat small and it has a slower pour speed courtesy of it being a Japanese shiboridashi... Should I break my heart and go elsewhere (perhaps a pot by Hokujo?) or will the slow pour speed not have such bad consequences? Thank you for your input!

[drinking_teas]

for gaoshan pour doesn't matter too much, while with dancong pour is everything.

not sure about using a shiboridashi for oolongs

[debunix]

I frequently brew oolongs in shiboridashi: oolongs are so forgiving that I don't worry about the pour time in general for Alishans, Wuyis, TGYs, and pretty much everything except Dan Congs. I am a little more cautious with Dan Congs, but I brew them in pots and gaiwans both, and consider the pour issues with gaiwans to be about the same as with shibos. I generally use a small amount of tea to be sure that not-quite-flash infusions are not overbrewed, and I don't hesitate to add a bit of extra water if I overdo it by slow pouring.

[BW85]

I imagine it would be of more concern with dancong. Maybe not gaoshan. It also depends on how you brew. 5 sec longer in a flash brew could have a noticeable effect. 5 sec on a 30 sec brew... Probably not a big deal

[steanze]

Different people have different views/experiences I used to use a shibo in the office but I ended up switching to a porcelain pot. I would not use a shibo as my first choice for oolongs. However, it is quite possible that I was not able to learn how to use it best.
I think for gaoshan it can be alright, and pour speed shouldn't be too much of an issue (steeping time is usually 20-25s +). I must confess I prefer a porcelain gaiwan for gaoshan, it's less likely that you'll overcook the leaves and get spinach soup. In my experience gaoshan in a gaiwan tends to taste "fresher" and more aromatic than in a shibo.
For dancongs I would avoid a shibo (personal opinion). Fast pour speed is essential. Depending on whether the dancong is light roast or dark roast, I'd pick porcelain gaiwan or hongni/zhuni yixing. Since a good yixing is not too easy to find and not very cheap, gaiwan is ok for dark roast dancongs too.
Also in my experience wuyi oolongs are not so forgiving, because I like to use a fair amount of leaves (just the regular ~3/4 of pot full for gongfu), so to me pour speed is very important for wuyis too.
I have to add that this applies only if that's going to be your only/main vessel to brew those teas. Otherwise, the shibo might be useful to have a different tool to bring out a different side from some teas - you might well find days on which you might want the effect of a certain particular oolong brewed in a shibo.

[kyarazen]

just to throw a little spanner into the subject, the ultimate fastest pour is not ideal (too turbulent and diffusive), neither is the slowest pour (over steeping).

a shibo/houhin vs teapot for oolong is worth exploring personally, there are a couple of qing era texts that briefly critiqued the usage of gaiwan vs teapot

[the_economist]

Was this in the late Qing period? I had the impression that gongfu brewing with a gaiwan was a relatively recent phenomenon.

Would love to have a look at those texts!

[kyarazen]

Was this in the late Qing period? I had the impression that gongfu brewing with a gaiwan was a relatively recent phenomenon.

Would love to have a look at those texts!

mid to late! i have them somewhere in an ipad, will send you when i locate it

[steanze]

Good point on pour speed.

In the case of the shibo, in my reply I also assumed that it is not porcelain but some kind of ceramics/stoneware, so that's why I mentioned overcooking the green oolongs.

[Noahwhiteman24]

Thank you all for the replies! Very good points made about technique over brewing appliance itself. I worry with the shiboridashi that I can do a better job with my regular Gaiwan, and yes it is stoneware so it would be a little more at risk for tea cooking... The text about the critiquing of gaiwans vs teapots would be very interesting to see! I think for now I might try to master my gaiwan technique before I try using a shiboridashi as one.

[BW85]

Was this in the late Qing period? I had the impression that gongfu brewing with a gaiwan was a relatively recent phenomenon.

Would love to have a look at those texts!

mid to late! i have them somewhere in an ipad, will send you when i locate it

I'd find this interesting as well

[Tead Off]

just to throw a little spanner into the subject, the ultimate fastest pour is not ideal (too turbulent and diffusive), neither is the slowest pour (over steeping).

a shibo/houhin vs teapot for oolong is worth exploring personally, there are a couple of qing era texts that briefly critiqued the usage of gaiwan vs teapot

One day on a whim, I took my Hokujo shiboridashi and put some Orchid Gratus from Teahong into it. Voila! It became my standard for brewing Dancong teas.

Notice the difference in texture and firing of the clay compared to a gaiwan. Many say porcelain is better because of the aroma. When I tasted this in the shibo, I was struck by the depth and complexity of flavor, the mouthfeel, and the huigan. This is not a high fired pot that rings like a bell as porcelain and some Yixing do. This is a mixed clay shibo that happens to be made in Tokoname. It does wonders for high end sencha and gyokuro.

Orchid Gratus wet copy.jpg (76.07 KiB) Viewed 2226 times

[steanze]

Well I'd like to see those texts too

[kyarazen]

One day on a whim, I took my Hokujo shiboridashi and put some Orchid Gratus from Teahong into it. Voila! It became my standard for brewing Dancong teas.

Notice the difference in texture and firing of the clay compared to a gaiwan. Many say porcelain is better because of the aroma. When I tasted this in the shibo, I was struck by the depth and complexity of flavor, the mouthfeel, and the huigan. This is not a high fired pot that rings like a bell as porcelain and some Yixing do. This is a mixed clay shibo that happens to be made in Tokoname. It does wonders for high end sencha and gyokuro.

Orchid Gratus wet copy.jpg

i do use a hokujo gaiwan for dancong and many teas from time to time. its made of the exact same material that your shibo is made of.

the performance of the clay reminds me a lot of hojo's rough shiragaki. both clays are rather leachy, and they do add iron to the brew. you can leave some sencha/gyokuro in vessels made of both clays for a few hours to see the brew turn reddish to darkish. this effect is the same as tetsubin boiled water, the iron presence rushes the aroma forward and upwards, sharpening it. the brew is deepened as well.

[Tead Off]

Can you post a pic of the Hokujo gaiwan. I've never seen one by him and I'm curious about how it looks.

I've noticed the same thing about the color of the drying tea leaves left in the shibo.

One of the other qualities about this clay with Dancong is that it seems to reveal the full spectrum of a tea. If a Dancong is of poorer quality, it just dies in the pot, more so, than in a gaiwan. Interesting phenomenon.