Hi Everyone!
I recently got a spring galaxy glaze yunomi from Magokorodo on ebay, made by Naoko Tetsuaki. And while it is beautiful and I love it, it also is setting off all my sensitive paranoia sensors, the ones that make me fear metal poisoning by beautiful glazes.
I know that metals are used to make the lovely colors, and that they are for the most part locked into the glazes thru some magic of chemistry (which I dont understand), but that they can also leach out in certain circumstances, like in hot water or in acids.
I also know (from reading around here) that while lead and cadmium in glazes is regulated, other metals arent.
So while I really want to enjoy this cup, I think I want more information on it first, including your opinions, since I know that some of you are potters and experienced with glaze safety.
1)What metal is used to make this color glaze?
2)There are places in the cup where the glaze isn't the greenish color, instead it looks like metal. Is it "bad" that you can see this metallic sheen in some of these pics? Like...the metals werent "locked in" properly to the glaze or whatnot? It looks like copper or something....Why is it appearing metallic in those areas at all?
3)How would YOU use this cup, knowing all this? With reckless abandon, ie everyday with hot orange juice? Never? Once a week with neutral teas only?
BTW, I did ask Magokorodo if the cups are safe (in general) and got this response:
"All the works which MAGOKORODO.Co.Ltd. sells are works inspected in the industrial experimental station, and these works are safe.
The glaze which has a bad influence on food in present-day Japan cannot be used. "
It's a little comforting but not nearly enough for me. Also, I am impatient and I don't want to pay for some leaching test if I don't need to. But then again I also don't want to get poisoned. Maybe I should consider it? Thoughts?
Sorry to be a party pooper. I have a tendency to be paranoid about this stuff, but I don't want to let my paranoia get in the way of enjoying a lovely cup that I would like to use without doubts. I appeal to your knowledge to help me enjoy my tea cup.
Regards,
Bintuborg
Sep 19th, '15, 22:53
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debunix
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
I've avoided using my galaxy glazed cups for non-tea beverages for the same reason that I restrict them in cups with snowflake and other crackling glazes--I worry about bits of anything more substantial than tea getting in and causing trouble. I haven't ever considered that they might be sources of significant heavy metal content in regular (but not every single day) use.
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
There is with any doubt much more pesticides in the teas you will drink (or in your food too - even if they are both "organic") and much more heavy metals in the air you're breathing than in all the cups you'll drink in this Yunomibintuborg wrote:Thoughts?
Sep 20th, '15, 15:45
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Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
According to this argument, we shouldn't pursue for an healthier lifestyle, since we poison ourselves every day, right?Tsubo wrote: There is with any doubt much more pesticides in the teas you will drink (or in your food too - even if they are both "organic") and much more heavy metals in the air you're breathing than in all the cups you'll drink in this Yunomi
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Livers are wonderful organs! But that's all I have to add to this thread.
Cheers

Sep 20th, '15, 21:34
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Joined: Jan 10th, '10, 16:04
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debunix
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
With great pleasure for routine drinking of tea, taking its place as an everyday member of my teacup rotation. Currently my twin to yours is at work, and gets used daily for a liter or more of tea over the course of the day, 3-5 days in a row, before another cup suddenly looks very lonely, and I switch to to that one.bintuborg wrote:
3)How would YOU use this cup...?
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Really this wouldn't worry me one bit, and i have a guinomi with that glaze. There's a reason the glaze stays on after years of using a certain piece of pottery.bintuborg wrote:Sorry to be a party pooper. I have a tendency to be paranoid about this stuff, but I don't want to let my paranoia get in the way of enjoying a lovely cup that I would like to use without doubts. I appeal to your knowledge to help me enjoy my tea cup.
The only things that can be worrysome is lead in old raku tea bowls, now that cán poison you.
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
mm do rakus lose glaze after years of use? I don't have any so I don't know the answer. But if the glaze stays on, that suggests that whether the glaze stays on is not a very good indicator of whether a cup can poison you...Fuut wrote:Really this wouldn't worry me one bit, and i have a guinomi with that glaze. There's a reason the glaze stays on after years of using a certain piece of pottery.bintuborg wrote:Sorry to be a party pooper. I have a tendency to be paranoid about this stuff, but I don't want to let my paranoia get in the way of enjoying a lovely cup that I would like to use without doubts. I appeal to your knowledge to help me enjoy my tea cup.
The only things that can be worrysome is lead in old raku tea bowls, now that cán poison you.
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Of course no ... just remember what the priorities are ...William wrote:According to this argument, we shouldn't pursue for an healthier lifestyle, since we poison ourselves every day, right?Tsubo wrote: There is with any doubt much more pesticides in the teas you will drink (or in your food too - even if they are both "organic") and much more heavy metals in the air you're breathing than in all the cups you'll drink in this Yunomi

and a lead free glaze, with a baking at 1250 °Celsius to 1 300 °C, which mean a glass solidification, is not really a concern.
Sep 21st, '15, 16:12
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Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Fair enough!Tsubo wrote: Of course no ... just remember what the priorities are ...

I personally don't know how heavy metals react with verified glaze nor I know if a vitrified glaze really insulate from a possible contamination of the liquid inside the vessel .. We should ask to sensei JBaymore!Tsubo wrote: and a lead free glaze, with a baking at 1250 °Celsius to 1 300 °C, which mean a glass solidification, is not really a concern.

Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
For my part, I have enough knowledge on the subject to haven't many doubts about the harmlessness of this kind of glaze as long it's not used with acid PH fluids on a long term basis.
As "collector" of Japanese ceramics, I have more preoccupations on old (and not so old, as the mid-term of the Showa Period is not so far from us) lead glazes fired at low temperatures such as Raku which can really release part of their components, even in single water.
As "collector" of Japanese ceramics, I have more preoccupations on old (and not so old, as the mid-term of the Showa Period is not so far from us) lead glazes fired at low temperatures such as Raku which can really release part of their components, even in single water.
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Interesting... people tend to call out acidic conditions when it comes to leaching, but alkaline conditions can leach just as well.
Bottom line, like many things, is it depends: on the compounds that could be leached (dissolved), on the nature of the glaze itself (its porosity and how much it traps the molecules in its structure), and the qualities of the liquid in contact with the surface.
The fact that you can see crystals does not imply that the molecules involved (or their ability to dissolve) is any greater or any worse than a typical borosilicate glass.
In the absence of that kind of information, the options to know for certain (and not just speculation) are to have it subjected to lab tests.
Bottom line, like many things, is it depends: on the compounds that could be leached (dissolved), on the nature of the glaze itself (its porosity and how much it traps the molecules in its structure), and the qualities of the liquid in contact with the surface.
The fact that you can see crystals does not imply that the molecules involved (or their ability to dissolve) is any greater or any worse than a typical borosilicate glass.
In the absence of that kind of information, the options to know for certain (and not just speculation) are to have it subjected to lab tests.
Sep 22nd, '15, 13:50
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Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Thanks for the invite PM, William. As you apparently know... I teach this stuff at the college level.
What you are looking at on that first image above in the start of this thread (the small black-ish areas) are XXXXXXXX-silicate crystalline formations stained with an excess of copper compounds (black copper oxide) that precipitated out of the molten glass during the cooling phase of the firing in places where the glaze layer was very thick and the cooling was very slow. (Exact composition of those silicates dependent upon the formulation of the oxides that went into the glaze batch to start with.) They are sitting mainly on the surface of the glaze but do "penetrate" vertically downward a tiny bit into the glassy matrix.
It is well known through extensive testing work on many types of glaze surfaces, that in general materials that are precipitated out onto the surfaces of glazes are more prone to leaching than materials tied into the glassy phase. That being said........ as has been mentioned already...... only lab testing can tell the exact amount that will leach into acids OR bases.
The main color producing material for that blue-ish glaze is copper compounds. (From the visual, I'm guessing there is some titanium trace in that glaze also. And iron too. Possibly a tiny bit of cobalt.) Contrary to popular (studio potter) opinion (hysteria?) ...... copper is not all that toxic upon ingestion... although people with Wilson's Disease (rare) are very susceptible to copper.
A bit technical and not fully useful without the actual verbal presentation .... here's something to peruse. I've posted this link on this forum before in the past: http://www.slideshare.net/nceca/06-315- ... a2014final
It is a bit instructive on the overall toxicity subject for those that are interested. William Carty is one of THE people who know what glazes are all about.
As to the level of risk in using such a piece........ negligible. It is statistically there if you measure finely enough (lots of zeros to the right of the decimal place)....... but so small that you should be worrying about getting hit by lightening
.
The comments here in this thread on OLD Japanese raku bowls are a bit misleading. Yes, both old aka raku and kuro raku are covered with a lead based glaze. Guess what? NEW contemporary Japanese raku bowls are very, very frequently also still covered with lead based glazes. (If you own a new one...... hit it with a hardware store lead test kit.) Because ceramics is so important in Japanese culture, certain things are excluded from various laws. Raku pieces and overglaze enamel pieces are exceptions that are allowed... because the art is important. Some effects in aka raku are hard to get without lead.
The biggest hazard from lead glazed anything is not to the user. It is to the potter. The handling of the lead compounds in the studio/workshop is a real concern for them.
I sometimes use lead glazed raku bowls for Chanoyu. Before the ceremony the bowl is washed thoroughly in preparation for the event (cleanliness is next to godliness). In the beginning of the ceremony event, before tea hits the bowl, the bowl is again ritually washed inside and at the lip. The serving of tea and water is in that bowl for a really short time before being drunk. The level of leaching possible given the ph of the mixture and the amount of unbound lead directly near the surface of the glaze..... and adding in the "time in contact factor"......... is such that again........ worry about that pesky lightening
.
Don't store you orange juice in the fridge in a raku bowl for a week.
Also note that the more material that IS leached out of a glaze surface... the lower the next subsequent level of leaching will be. So the more a piece is cleaned / used... the lower the levels of material it will leach. In an infinite time period...... with unlimited cleanings/usings..... statistically the levels should be heading toward zero but never quite reach that point.
Stability in glazes as to the leaching of constituents in the glaze out into "foodstuff" is a very complex subject. Generalizations are always wrong. I tell my students all the time, and have posted here before (and someone already mentioned this also) that the correct answer to ANY question about ceramics is always "It depends". There are SO many variables it is amazing. Many that as potters we know and attempt to control... and many that most potters are not even aware exist.
Where things get a bit "concern raising" is where high concentrations of potentially toxic substances are involved in clay bodies, slips, and glazes. Or where the glassy phase of the glaze is "interrupted" by microcrystalline precipitations on the surface of the entire glaze. Things that tend to 'get my attention' are stuff like extensive gunmetal black semi-matt surfaces at any temperature firing range, any blood red coloration at lower firings temperatures, low temperature (soft) high boron glazes with colorants that are potentially toxic, low temperature lead glazes in certain food usage situations, and so on.
I'm a bit more concerned about the stuff from PLASTIC containers that gets into foodstuffs.
Generally....... fired ceramic is pretty "safe" stuff. I can carry $2 mil of product liability insurance on my pottery production for well less than $1000 a year; that tells you something about the real risks.
best,
....................john
What you are looking at on that first image above in the start of this thread (the small black-ish areas) are XXXXXXXX-silicate crystalline formations stained with an excess of copper compounds (black copper oxide) that precipitated out of the molten glass during the cooling phase of the firing in places where the glaze layer was very thick and the cooling was very slow. (Exact composition of those silicates dependent upon the formulation of the oxides that went into the glaze batch to start with.) They are sitting mainly on the surface of the glaze but do "penetrate" vertically downward a tiny bit into the glassy matrix.
It is well known through extensive testing work on many types of glaze surfaces, that in general materials that are precipitated out onto the surfaces of glazes are more prone to leaching than materials tied into the glassy phase. That being said........ as has been mentioned already...... only lab testing can tell the exact amount that will leach into acids OR bases.
The main color producing material for that blue-ish glaze is copper compounds. (From the visual, I'm guessing there is some titanium trace in that glaze also. And iron too. Possibly a tiny bit of cobalt.) Contrary to popular (studio potter) opinion (hysteria?) ...... copper is not all that toxic upon ingestion... although people with Wilson's Disease (rare) are very susceptible to copper.
A bit technical and not fully useful without the actual verbal presentation .... here's something to peruse. I've posted this link on this forum before in the past: http://www.slideshare.net/nceca/06-315- ... a2014final
It is a bit instructive on the overall toxicity subject for those that are interested. William Carty is one of THE people who know what glazes are all about.
As to the level of risk in using such a piece........ negligible. It is statistically there if you measure finely enough (lots of zeros to the right of the decimal place)....... but so small that you should be worrying about getting hit by lightening

The comments here in this thread on OLD Japanese raku bowls are a bit misleading. Yes, both old aka raku and kuro raku are covered with a lead based glaze. Guess what? NEW contemporary Japanese raku bowls are very, very frequently also still covered with lead based glazes. (If you own a new one...... hit it with a hardware store lead test kit.) Because ceramics is so important in Japanese culture, certain things are excluded from various laws. Raku pieces and overglaze enamel pieces are exceptions that are allowed... because the art is important. Some effects in aka raku are hard to get without lead.
The biggest hazard from lead glazed anything is not to the user. It is to the potter. The handling of the lead compounds in the studio/workshop is a real concern for them.
I sometimes use lead glazed raku bowls for Chanoyu. Before the ceremony the bowl is washed thoroughly in preparation for the event (cleanliness is next to godliness). In the beginning of the ceremony event, before tea hits the bowl, the bowl is again ritually washed inside and at the lip. The serving of tea and water is in that bowl for a really short time before being drunk. The level of leaching possible given the ph of the mixture and the amount of unbound lead directly near the surface of the glaze..... and adding in the "time in contact factor"......... is such that again........ worry about that pesky lightening

Don't store you orange juice in the fridge in a raku bowl for a week.

Also note that the more material that IS leached out of a glaze surface... the lower the next subsequent level of leaching will be. So the more a piece is cleaned / used... the lower the levels of material it will leach. In an infinite time period...... with unlimited cleanings/usings..... statistically the levels should be heading toward zero but never quite reach that point.
Stability in glazes as to the leaching of constituents in the glaze out into "foodstuff" is a very complex subject. Generalizations are always wrong. I tell my students all the time, and have posted here before (and someone already mentioned this also) that the correct answer to ANY question about ceramics is always "It depends". There are SO many variables it is amazing. Many that as potters we know and attempt to control... and many that most potters are not even aware exist.
Where things get a bit "concern raising" is where high concentrations of potentially toxic substances are involved in clay bodies, slips, and glazes. Or where the glassy phase of the glaze is "interrupted" by microcrystalline precipitations on the surface of the entire glaze. Things that tend to 'get my attention' are stuff like extensive gunmetal black semi-matt surfaces at any temperature firing range, any blood red coloration at lower firings temperatures, low temperature (soft) high boron glazes with colorants that are potentially toxic, low temperature lead glazes in certain food usage situations, and so on.
I'm a bit more concerned about the stuff from PLASTIC containers that gets into foodstuffs.
Generally....... fired ceramic is pretty "safe" stuff. I can carry $2 mil of product liability insurance on my pottery production for well less than $1000 a year; that tells you something about the real risks.
best,
....................john
Sep 22nd, '15, 14:49
Posts: 1144
Joined: Jul 10th, '13, 01:38
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Location: Japan.
Re: Galaxy Glaze Food Safety?
Thanks for replying John. As always, your posts are illuminating and instructive.
The link you posted is absolutely amazing, thanks again!
The link you posted is absolutely amazing, thanks again!
