Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

Fully oxidized tea leaves for a robust cup.

User avatar
Feb 11th 16 7:24 pm
Posts: 2817
Joined: Oct 17th 08 1:01 am
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Arlington, VA

Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by Drax » Feb 11th 16 7:24 pm

Just saw this article on NHK.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/ ... 60209.html

A very Japanese attitude. Has anybody happened to try any of this tea, or any black tea from Brazil?

Feb 12th 16 12:57 am
Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 29th 13 10:00 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by puyuan » Feb 12th 16 12:57 am

Last I heard it was all in shambles and no tea was being produced (if memory serves me right). Nice that this lady gave it a shot. This country is not big on tea, most people can't tell it from tisanes and will most likely prefer them. So it was all for export back then. I don't know how easy to find her productions are locally but I will look into it.

User avatar
Feb 12th 16 5:12 pm
Posts: 2817
Joined: Oct 17th 08 1:01 am
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Arlington, VA

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by Drax » Feb 12th 16 5:12 pm

Interesting! And it will also be interesting to see if you can find anything at all on it... sounds like it might be quite small, local.

Apr 21st 16 6:18 pm
Posts: 319
Joined: Jun 30th 14 1:26 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by daidokorocha » Apr 21st 16 6:18 pm

So, I went looking for the Japanese version of this article, and they include where you can buy the tea. I'm thinking about possibly getting some myself.

http://www.infusorina.com.br/cha-preto-shimada

Edit: For those in Sao Paulo, you can apparently try it here according to the article

http://www.teakettle.com.br/

May 2nd 16 1:26 am
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 21st 16 7:38 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by GooseberrySpoon » May 2nd 16 1:26 am

I just saw her tea on What-Cha:

http://what-cha.com/2016-tea/brazil-gra ... black-tea/

I'm interested in trying some. I've always been suprised I haven't seen more Brazilian tea with their climate and the large ethnic Japanese population.

May 2nd 16 7:50 pm
Posts: 319
Joined: Jun 30th 14 1:26 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by daidokorocha » May 2nd 16 7:50 pm

GooseberrySpoon wrote:I just saw her tea on What-Cha:

http://what-cha.com/2016-tea/brazil-gra ... black-tea/

I'm interested in trying some. I've always been suprised I haven't seen more Brazilian tea with their climate and the large ethnic Japanese population.
Hmm... I understand businesses have to make a profit, but a mark up from $3 from Brazilian vendor to $11 through what-cha leaves me not wanting to order this tea from what-cha unless I am doing so as part of a larger order. I appreciate that what-cha brings together lots of teas that are interesting and different, but one can do much better for most of these teas directly from the tea producers themselves. It is useful if you want to big up a wide variety of teas, but if you're interested in, say, just their Vietnamese, I feel like going direct is the better route.

May 2nd 16 10:20 pm
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 21st 16 7:38 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by GooseberrySpoon » May 2nd 16 10:20 pm

daidokorocha wrote:
GooseberrySpoon wrote:I just saw her tea on What-Cha:

http://what-cha.com/2016-tea/brazil-gra ... black-tea/

I'm interested in trying some. I've always been suprised I haven't seen more Brazilian tea with their climate and the large ethnic Japanese population.
Hmm... I understand businesses have to make a profit, but a mark up from $3 from Brazilian vendor to $11 through what-cha leaves me not wanting to order this tea from what-cha unless I am doing so as part of a larger order. I appreciate that what-cha brings together lots of teas that are interesting and different, but one can do much better for most of these teas directly from the tea producers themselves. It is useful if you want to big up a wide variety of teas, but if you're interested in, say, just their Vietnamese, I feel like going direct is the better route.
You're right that buying direct can be better, but from what I know about Brazil it might be worth paying someone else to deal with it. It doesn't look like that site ships internationally, but if it did I imagine you would be paying as much if not more for the tea in the end and additionally have to risk the customs hell that is trying to get plant matter out of Brazil.

May 2nd 16 10:28 pm
Posts: 319
Joined: Jun 30th 14 1:26 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by daidokorocha » May 2nd 16 10:28 pm

GooseberrySpoon wrote:
daidokorocha wrote:
GooseberrySpoon wrote:I just saw her tea on What-Cha:

http://what-cha.com/2016-tea/brazil-gra ... black-tea/

I'm interested in trying some. I've always been suprised I haven't seen more Brazilian tea with their climate and the large ethnic Japanese population.
Hmm... I understand businesses have to make a profit, but a mark up from $3 from Brazilian vendor to $11 through what-cha leaves me not wanting to order this tea from what-cha unless I am doing so as part of a larger order. I appreciate that what-cha brings together lots of teas that are interesting and different, but one can do much better for most of these teas directly from the tea producers themselves. It is useful if you want to big up a wide variety of teas, but if you're interested in, say, just their Vietnamese, I feel like going direct is the better route.
You're right that buying direct can be better, but from what I know about Brazil it might be worth paying someone else to deal with it. It doesn't look like that site ships internationally, but if it did I imagine you would be paying as much if not more for the tea in the end and additionally have to risk the customs hell that is trying to get plant matter out of Brazil.
No, that site does not ship internationally indeed. So one doesn't have many options! However, knowing that I could get it for much cheaper sort of puts me off buying what perhaps may be a novelty tea. Sometimes I just hate thinking about how I could buy a pound of tea direct for how much some vendors re-sell 50 grams for. I would like to try it though... I may put in an order at what-cha sometime in the future and might throw in 25 grams. I appreciate what what-cha does, so I would eat the mark up to support his endeavor.

User avatar
May 13th 16 6:15 am
Posts: 222
Joined: Dec 26th 13 3:59 am
Location: bangkok

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by john.b » May 13th 16 6:15 am

Kind of going with a tangent here, but I've bought tea from Hatvala, the Vietnamese What-cha source mentioned, and it is like that, much less to buy it direct. Unless I'm mistaken the Hatvala teas retail price through What-cha has dropped a good bit in the last year, down from over $10 per 50 grams for most to under, or from the higher side of middle-range tea pricing to a moderate cost.

That kind of trend will probably be a lot more dramatic as other vendors figure out that copying What-cha's model isn't all that difficult, that any of those vendors would sell them pounds / kilos of tea at rates that could essentially What-cha's mark-ups, just adjusting them down for more competition lowering pricing one could charge.

One might wonder what the import issues are with ordering a few pounds / kilos of tea from abroad would be, and I don't know, related to the US, because I live in Thailand. Here I've only ordered two kilos once, otherwise just standard tea amounts, and supposedly import customs tax flagging is inconsistent, but it hasn't come up.

May 27th 16 5:29 pm
Posts: 2
Joined: May 11th 16 8:32 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by what-cha » May 27th 16 5:29 pm

It's Alistair of What-Cha here, I just registered to give a bit of background on my pricing.

With regards to Ume's tea, it was purchased before I knew that it was being sold for ~$3.33/50g locally within Brazil. I contacted Ume and was quoted a price of $87.50/kg which seemed on the steep side to me, but wanting to support a small producer trying to revive tea production in their area, I agreed to it.

Shipping and transaction costs added another $20/kg on to the price, resulting in a final cost price of $107.50/kg giving me a cost price of $5.38/50g. My margin of roughly $5.50 has to then cover the cost of international shipping which is offered at a subsidised or free rate (give a certain level of spend), the bag it goes into, labour and all the various business costs.

Unfortunately operating as a western based vendor is extremely difficult with a much higher cost base on everything which will always make my prices higher compared to vendors selling teas from the source country.

In terms of copying my model, it is easy to replicate but the challenge lies in actually making a living wage, which is extremely challenging (not something I've achieved after two years) and ultimately makes the business a labour of love.

May 27th 16 7:28 pm
Posts: 319
Joined: Jun 30th 14 1:26 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by daidokorocha » May 27th 16 7:28 pm

I do not think there is a need to justify your pricing, Alistair. I have never ordered from what-cha, but I recommend it to people often and use it as an example of interesting vendors in general, not just as one in the tea world. I respect that you are so open with your sourcing as well, which allowed me to actually find Hatvala and begin ordering from them. There are many teas on your site that look very interesting to me that I plan on trying in the future if they are still there.

May 27th 16 10:32 pm
Posts: 2
Joined: May 11th 16 8:32 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by what-cha » May 27th 16 10:32 pm

daidokorocha wrote:I do not think there is a need to justify your pricing, Alistair. I have never ordered from what-cha, but I recommend it to people often and use it as an example of interesting vendors in general, not just as one in the tea world. I respect that you are so open with your sourcing as well, which allowed me to actually find Hatvala and begin ordering from them. There are many teas on your site that look very interesting to me that I plan on trying in the future if they are still there.
Thanks for your understanding, it was a rather awkward position for me whereby it appeared I was making a large margin while the reality was different.

Hatvala are an amazing company to work with and it's good to hear that you found them via myself, I just wish that there are wholesalers as good as Hatvala in other countries.

My tea selection is very much a constant evolution whereby I'm constantly seeking out new and unusual teas but if they don't prove sufficiently popular, they probably won't return.

User avatar
May 28th 16 6:55 am
Posts: 202
Joined: Feb 10th 14 1:01 am

Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by CWarren » May 28th 16 6:55 am

I'm a customer of what-cha and I can honestly say that the ability to purchase huge varieties of global teas in a plethora of different sample size options all in one place makes any cost increase versus from what I could get direct from the source worth it. There are also a lot of direct sources that require huge minimum purchases of tea to even have access to them. I've already got cupboards spilling over with cakes and kilos of tea. I wouldn't know what to do with kilos of one or two types without some joint split or getting into tea sales which I have no interest in at the moment. :D long story short this is why someone like me is good with places like what-cha and other similar vendors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May 28th 16 5:19 pm
Posts: 319
Joined: Jun 30th 14 1:26 am

Re: Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by daidokorocha » May 28th 16 5:19 pm

CWarren wrote:I'm a customer of what-cha and I can honestly say that the ability to purchase huge varieties of global teas in a plethora of different sample size options all in one place makes any cost increase versus from what I could get direct from the source worth it. There are also a lot of direct sources that require huge minimum purchases of tea to even have access to them. I've already got cupboards spilling over with cakes and kilos of tea. I wouldn't know what to do with kilos of one or two types without some joint split or getting into tea sales which I have no interest in at the moment. :D long story short this is why someone like me is good with places like what-cha and other similar vendors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, I could not imagine being like Ethan and buying a kilo of one tea. :lol: I have ordered a kilogram from a vendor before, but that is across 20+ types of different teas.

What teas did you like from what-cha? I am interested in trying their Georgian and Russian teas. The Hatlava and Gorreana estate teas are good, in my opinion. I am almost surprised they offer the Gorreana because of how easy (and cheap!) it is to get them direct, but I appreciate that Alistair is making them more known. When I go to Portugal, hopefully I can make my way to the Azores and visit the Gorreana estate.

I believe on reddit that Alistair said once that he is not able to carry certain teas just because it is impossible from a business standpoint. I think he said this about American/Hawaiian teas. One can easily see why. Still, what-cha's existence is the reason that people on reddit were even thinking about sourcing tea from America/Hawaii. The business model is definitely a win-win for tea and tea lovers. In fact, I would love to work with vendors like what-cha in the future if feasible, as I plan on hopefully working on promoting the tea diversity of Japan to a broader market.

User avatar
May 28th 16 10:48 pm
Posts: 202
Joined: Feb 10th 14 1:01 am

Brazilian (Japanese) black tea

by CWarren » May 28th 16 10:48 pm

daidokorocha wrote:
CWarren wrote:I'm a customer of what-cha and I can honestly say that the ability to purchase huge varieties of global teas in a plethora of different sample size options all in one place makes any cost increase versus from what I could get direct from the source worth it. There are also a lot of direct sources that require huge minimum purchases of tea to even have access to them. I've already got cupboards spilling over with cakes and kilos of tea. I wouldn't know what to do with kilos of one or two types without some joint split or getting into tea sales which I have no interest in at the moment. :D long story short this is why someone like me is good with places like what-cha and other similar vendors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, I could not imagine being like Ethan and buying a kilo of one tea. :lol: I have ordered a kilogram from a vendor before, but that is across 20+ types of different teas.

What teas did you like from what-cha? I am interested in trying their Georgian and Russian teas. The Hatlava and Gorreana estate teas are good, in my opinion. I am almost surprised they offer the Gorreana because of how easy (and cheap!) it is to get them direct, but I appreciate that Alistair is making them more known. When I go to Portugal, hopefully I can make my way to the Azores and visit the Gorreana estate.

I believe on reddit that Alistair said once that he is not able to carry certain teas just because it is impossible from a business standpoint. I think he said this about American/Hawaiian teas. One can easily see why. Still, what-cha's existence is the reason that people on reddit were even thinking about sourcing tea from America/Hawaii. The business model is definitely a win-win for tea and tea lovers. In fact, I would love to work with vendors like what-cha in the future if feasible, as I plan on hopefully working on promoting the tea diversity of Japan to a broader market.


I've been very curious about a lot of the US teas I've been hearing about. There are quite a few kick starter type campaigns revolved around some. Reminds me of when California started with wine and all the negativity surrounding it. I wonder how the us growers will fare.

As for what-cha these are the teas I've purchased from them so far and haven't been disappointed yet. I really enjoyed the selection from Vietnam.

2015 What-Cha 'Lao Shu Bai Cha' Raw Puerh Cake
Australia Arakai Summer Black Tea
Azerbaijan Azercay Buket Black Tea
Azores Orange Pekoe 'Ponta Branca' Black Tea
Brazil Grandma Ume's Black Tea
Burma 2014 Sen Zhi Kui Kokang Raw Dark Tea
China Anhui Huangshan 'Yellow Sun' Yellow Tea
Georgia Mr. Ramiz's Hand-Made Black Tea
Georgia Wild 'Guguli' Hand-Made Black Tea
Kenya Silver Needle White Tea
Korea Dosim Dawan Balhyocha Tea
Laos 2014 Chawangpu Ban Payasi Raw Dark Tea
Malawi 2014 Leafy Ripe Dark Tea
Russia Host Tea Estate Yellow Tea
Vietnam (Son La) Red Buffalo Oolong Tea
Indonesia Harendong Dark Oolong Tea

Good luck on your future endeavors. It sounds interesting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk