Antique porcelain teapots

[Bok]

Next item I bought in that afternoon (my guess is I will be returning soon ) is a smaller tea jar in a crackled mustard yellow glaze. The seller said it is Song Dynasty, but I doubt that. Probably another Qing dynasty.

(The open lid image better reflects the actual colours)

[ethan]

I think you should fill the jar secretly. Don't tell your wife. Have it sit as décor for years & then surprise her one day, hopefully w/ outstanding tea. It's beautiful.

[Bok]

I think you should fill the jar secretly. Don't tell your wife. Have it sit as décor for years & then surprise her one day, hopefully w/ outstanding tea. It's beautiful.

That is a very nice idea!

[Hmm]

Next item I bought in that afternoon (my guess is I will be returning soon ) is a smaller tea jar in a crackled mustard yellow glaze. The seller said it is Song Dynasty, but I doubt that. Probably another Qing dynasty.

(The open lid image better reflects the actual colours)

the last one I'm not sure is even an antique at all. Looks very new to me. Colors also don't look right to me. The cups are interesting, I'm not sure about the black underglazed one. Haven't seen anything like that before, but I'm somewhat new to this.

Did anyone tell you approximately what period each piece comes from? Also where did you find them? Do you know if they were made for the domestic Chinese market or possibly the S.E. Asian market? The reason I ask is because I'm not sure I've seen motifs like the ones your cups have. But I know Chinese porcelain made for e.g. S.E. Asia often times could have different motifs. Also regarding the cups, the bottom is totally unglazed which I'm not sure I'm familiar with. I would get a second opinion about them.

My understanding why some times the actual porcelain itself is bluish or greyish is because of wood ash. Cheaper made porcelain for commoners wouldn't be protected from wood ash like better made porcelain while in the kiln.

I do like your blue and white jar. It's nice. It's definitely Chinese, although, not sure I could date it. Is the bottom of that piece made to look really dirty? If so, it's probably a fake, but if it's relatively clean, then it's probably somewhat old.

I have what I believe is a Republic ginger jar that I have been using to put some puerh in.



Hopefully I can acquire more jars. Still looking for more Republic pieces out there, since I find late Qing and the Republic periods to be one of the most interesting periods in China.

[Bok]

the last one I'm not sure is even an antique at all. Looks very new to me. Colors also don't look right to me.

Might be the picture, if you inspect it closely one can see some indications of age. Underside also looks old to me. Also the quality (thin-ness, details are much more thin and refined than what I have seen in modern jars. In any case the price was pretty low, so I don’t mind if it really is antique or not

The rest look pretty good though, not sure about the black underglazed one before. Haven't seen anything like that before

Me neither, which is why I immediately bought it. The colour of the base glaze is actually a lot more yellow in real life, think creamy white paper.

Did anyone tell you approximately what period each piece comes from? Also where did you find them? Do you know if they were made for the domestic Chinese market or possibly the S.E. Asian market? The reason I ask is because I'm not sure I've seen motifs like the ones your cups have.

I got them at a local Jade/Antique market in Taipei (not the big touristy one, a smaller conglomerate of small shops). I saw similar cups in a lot of other shops there. Period-wise, the blue stuff is Qing or thereabouts, the red ones I was told where Ming, but I think it is more likely Qing as well. I do not think it is export porcelain, do not tend to see those things in Taiwanese antique shops.

Those look like everyday cups to me, no seal or nothing and the underside is unglazed, unlike the high end cups one can see in some auction houses.
I guess the sheer mass and availability of them, China being a populous country since ages, makes them cheap, even though they are old…

[Bok]

In Taiwan, you mostly find Chinese stuff of all ages, Taiwanese and Japanese items and a few things from Tibet and the region (a lot of people in Taiwan are into the Tibetan version of Buddhism).

[Hmm]

the last one I'm not sure is even an antique at all. Looks very new to me. Colors also don't look right to me.

Might be the picture, if you inspect it closely one can see some indications of age. Underside also looks old to me. Also the quality (thin-ness, details are much more thin and refined than what I have seen in modern jars. In any case the price was pretty low, so I don’t mind if it really is antique or not

The rest look pretty good though, not sure about the black underglazed one before. Haven't seen anything like that before

Me neither, which is why I immediately bought it. The colour of the base glaze is actually a lot more yellow in real life, think creamy white paper.

Did anyone tell you approximately what period each piece comes from? Also where did you find them? Do you know if they were made for the domestic Chinese market or possibly the S.E. Asian market? The reason I ask is because I'm not sure I've seen motifs like the ones your cups have.

I got them at a local Jade/Antique market in Taipei (not the big touristy one, a smaller conglomerate of small shops). I saw similar cups in a lot of other shops there. Period-wise, the blue stuff is Qing or thereabouts, the red ones I was told where Ming, but I think it is more likely Qing as well. I do not think it is export porcelain, do not tend to see those things in Taiwanese antique shops.

Those look like everyday cups to me, no seal or nothing and the underside is unglazed, unlike the high end cups one can see in some auction houses.
I guess the sheer mass and availability of them, China being a populous country since ages, makes them cheap, even though they are old…

Modern jars can DEFINITELY be made thin. I don't think that's necessarily a major factor in figuring out if something is older or not. Do you have a photo of the bottom?

The weird thing is that all of my Qing minyao pieces (commoner pieces) bottoms are glazed except for the tip of the foot. That's why I find in interesting that your pieces aren't glazed. Also causally looking on e.g. ebay at pieces I'm pretty sure are actual antiques, that were for commoners are also glazed.

Maybe your pieces ARE really old, e.g. Ming pieces, which I'm not so familiar with since I'm mainly interested in collecting right now late Qing/Republic.

Can you try posting them on e.g. http://discussion.chinese-antique-porce ... ?board=1.0 I wondering what other people's opinions are. Thanks.

[Bok]

Modern jars can DEFINITELY be made thin. I don't think that's necessarily a major factor in figuring out if something is older or not. Do you have a photo of the bottom?

Not at hand, need to take one, when I am home.

The weird thing is that all of my Qing minyao pieces (commoner pieces) bottoms are glazed except for the tip of the foot. That's why I find in interesting that your pieces aren't glazed. Also causally looking on e.g. ebay at pieces I'm pretty sure are actual antiques, that were for commoners are also glazed.

Well, on ebay you find what reaches the Western market
All I can say is that here in Taiwan at that market alone, I saw hundreds of cups in all sorts of shapes, all with unglazed feet.

Also, China is a very large place, so it would make sense that there are a lot of different kinds of cup styles, doesn’t it?

The blue ones are much better made though, the calligraphies more elegant and the glazing more precise. Funnily enough I saw the same style drawing of birds on modern tea cups on taobao(with glazed feet)! So it definitely seems to be an authentic Chinese style!

Can you try posting them on e.g. http://discussion.chinese-antique-porce ... ?board=1.0 I wondering what other people's opinions are. Thanks.

Good idea, will do that once I find some time.

[jayinhk]

Authentic or not, pretty cool scores! I like the blue and white cups and jar the best. The crackle-glaze jar is nice too, but also looks new to me. Might just be the pics of course.

I just bought an old HK-made pewter tea caddy and an odd ginger jar (not that old, but I liked the painting on it). Gonna hold off on porcelain purchases until I get to Hanoi next month--should be able to get some nicely painted stuff for cheap.

[Bok]

Gonna hold off on porcelain purchases until I get to Hanoi next month--should be able to get some nicely painted stuff for cheap.

Or hold off some more and I show you the market I went to
Yep I have my doubts as well on the yellow one, but altogether still cheaper than a comparable modern one!

[Bok]

The weird thing is that all of my Qing minyao pieces (commoner pieces) bottoms are glazed except for the tip of the foot. That's why I find in interesting that your pieces aren't glazed. Also causally looking on e.g. ebay at pieces I'm pretty sure are actual antiques, that were for commoners are also glazed.

Just found another reference in one of teamasters old topics, there you can see a couple more of Qing dynasty cups with un- or only partially glazed feet: http://teamasters.blogspot.tw/2006/04/q ... -cups.html

[Hmm]

The weird thing is that all of my Qing minyao pieces (commoner pieces) bottoms are glazed except for the tip of the foot. That's why I find in interesting that your pieces aren't glazed. Also causally looking on e.g. ebay at pieces I'm pretty sure are actual antiques, that were for commoners are also glazed.

Just found another reference in one of teamasters old topics, there you can see a couple more of Qing dynasty cups with un- or only partially glazed feet: http://teamasters.blogspot.tw/2006/04/q ... -cups.html

Looking around, I've noticed more often that Ming pieces did have totally unglazed feet, but seems like it's not as likely with Qing pieces I've seen. All the pieces (not cups) that teamasters is currently selling have glazed bottoms, except for the rim around the edge.

As to the photo that teamasters provided. I'm not sure if all of them are necessarily old. Some looked like they were buried as well in soil, which usually is a technique people do to try fake aging, or maybe they were sea wreak pieces. Also one had a REALLY black bottom, which is usually not right.

Like I said, I'm definitely not an expert in this, and most pieces I have looked at are plates and bowls bottoms, and don't usually see cups. So perhaps feet for cups are totally different than what I think they should look like.

On taobao, are you talking about e.g. these imitation cups? http://world.taobao.com/item/45054725860.htm#detail

[Bok]

Like I said, I'm definitely not an expert in this, and most pieces I have looked at are plates and bowls bottoms, and don't usually see cups. So perhaps feet for cups are totally different than what I think they should look like.

On taobao, are you talking about e.g. these imitation cups? http://world.taobao.com/item/45054725860.htm#detail

Not an expert myself
As I said before, for me what is more interesting is the artistic quality and the fact that those items are nicer and cheaper than modern ones hand-made by an artisan.

It is not that taobao item. I can’t find it again, discovered during a long google image scroll, impossible to retrace my step. But they were essentially the same cups in shape and decoration, just clearly modern made, not pretending to be antique.

Price-wise it would not make sense for the cups I’ve bought to be artificially aged, just too cheap. So I come back to my theory that there are just too many of these common old cups to be sold at a higher price.

And people here in Taiwan do not necessarily appreciate old stuff which is not in premium, pristine condition.

I saw other shops which had more intricate and decorated cups which were sold for a lot higher prices. You could already tell by the way they were displayed. Stand alone vs thrown together in a box

[Bok]

Can you try posting them on e.g. http://discussion.chinese-antique-porce ... ?board=1.0 I wondering what other people's opinions are. Thanks.

Posted and got some replies already. Current guess is:
– Yellow jar, probably Japanese (makes sense, seen Taiwans history)
– Red cups Ming-Qing
– Blue cups Ming-Qing or Japanese
– Black cup 20th century

[jayinhk]

Gonna hold off on porcelain purchases until I get to Hanoi next month--should be able to get some nicely painted stuff for cheap.

Or hold off some more and I show you the market I went to
Yep I have my doubts as well on the yellow one, but altogether still cheaper than a comparable modern one!

That sounds good too