Yixing teaware: got scammed

[jayinhk]

Bought some Yixing teapots from a seller in Singapore that looked to be a great deal; some complete with Factory 1 Fang Yuan Pai stickers. I suspected a set of Four Gentlemen teapots I'd bought was a 90s remake because of bits of loose clay inside the pot and the spout being slightly off; Factory 1 pots, despite their flaws, are never quite that roughly made.

Then I received another batch of four pots that were clearly spraypainted with silver paint to look old. I was immediately disappointed and knew I'd been ripped off. I did a Google search on the Chinese characters the seller, pizikylin, used in his listing, and found a bunch of almost identical sets on Taobao for very little money, and then I found almost all of the pots I'd bought were available on there. Even the characters stamped inside the lid are faked.

You can see the seller's other pots here:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/pizikylin/m.htm ... pg=&_from=

The seller grew up in Hebei, then went to school in Shanghai. He's been to Yixing and I noticed he'd bought 70s and antique pots from eBay dealers, while selling me 70s ones at very good prices. It didn't make sense. I should've known better. I have a whole bunch of pots from him now and I paid good money for them.

Here are pics of one of the four pots I initially purchased. I really should've known better, considering I have so many authentic F1 pots, but it's very easy to get duped from pictures. It's surprising there aren't more of these modern fakes sold online. I bet the market will soon be flooded with them once people catch on. It will make the already tricky Yixing market even trickier as the copies just get better and better.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN-rhOvDlN3 ... fehk&hl=en

Stamp looks off here. Shoulda looked closer when I received these pots, but I was so happy at the deal and the chance to own a set of four.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN-rkiFDj5G ... fehk&hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN-rqEvjKqh ... fehk&hl=en

The spout should've told me everything. I should've known how readily available these are on Taobao, but I never looked...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN-rweiDSBh ... fehk&hl=en

These loose bits of clay are not something I've found on genuine F1 pots, but I have found them on cheaper modern replicas/knockoffs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN-r2vjj6me ... fehk&hl=en

Currently embroiled in a PayPal dispute with the guy. He's called them and angrily insists he won't take them back because I bought them after looking at the pictures. He described them as vintage and antique...they most certainly aren't. I may be flying over to SG to talk to the cops next week as I'm out over $1,000 at this point! Left him negative feedback on eBay and he's obviously unhappy about that too, and has had them remove some of the feedback it seems. I'll have to get in touch with them today and let them hear my side of things. In the meantime, if anyone could chime in on their opinions on the pots, it would be much appreciated as PayPal wants me to PROVE they're fake now after the guy insisted I do so.

[kyarazen]

i've never owned a single pot from the 4 "gentlemen" series or at least the 4 gentlemen to me were different shapes not these carvings.

given how hungry local and malaysian collectors are.. its never easy to find a "steal" from the mouth of the lion

[jayinhk]

i've never owned a single pot from the 4 "gentlemen" series or at least the 4 gentlemen to me were different shapes not these carvings.

given how hungry local and malaysian collectors are.. its never easy to find a "steal" from the mouth of the lion

Yes, too good to be true. I always suspected something was a little off, but I was so happy with the pots! I do have one of the Four Gentlemen pots (80s) with nice sandy zisha clay.

The pot is obviously fake, right?

[jayinhk]

Kyarazen it turns out you have the guy who sold me these pots on Facebook! Small world.

I am coming to SG to talk to the police about this guy.

[kyarazen]

Kyarazen it turns out you have the guy who sold me these pots on Facebook! Small world.

I am coming to SG to talk to the police about this guy.

hope you get your money back! a lot of people add me on facebook, cant control that though

[jayinhk]

Kyarazen it turns out you have the guy who sold me these pots on Facebook! Small world.

I am coming to SG to talk to the police about this guy.

hope you get your money back! a lot of people add me on facebook, cant control that though

Thanks, it looks like eBay will side with him. They want me to PROVE they are fake, and that is a hassle (authentication service, etc). I will try the legal route in SG. Will make for an interesting Christmas vacation la~

[Zared]

Ebay is a gamble with teaware so i steer clear of things over a.certain price. The clay looks sorta pale colored, are they actually that color?

Also is it uncommon to find clay shavings\bits in 80-early 90s pot? I'm curious because I've bought a supposed late 80-90s 40ml shui ping in flushing queens recently and it has some rough bits stuck inside. It was inexpensive and brews really well though.

[kyarazen]

Ebay is a gamble with teaware so i steer clear of things over a.certain price. The clay looks sorta pale colored, are they actually that color?

Also is it uncommon to find clay shavings\bits in 80-early 90s pot? I'm curious because I've bought a supposed late 80-90s 40ml shui ping in flushing queens recently and it has some rough bits stuck inside. It was inexpensive and brews really well though.

its common to find clay bits and shavings ~

[jayinhk]

I checked all of my authentic 80s F1 pots out and only one has any trace of a clay shaving inside (and very minor). I have gotten some amazing deals on three F1 Yixing pots on eBay--all 80s.

The pot in my pictures is indeed a little lighter than it should be for a neiziwaihong. I thought it was just the light, but nope, definite fake. I didn't realize how rampant the forgery of F1 pots was nowadays. Hoping this law protects me:

Consumer Protection (Trade Descriptions And Safety Requirements) Act


PART II - PROHIBITION OF FALSE TRADE DESCRIPTIONS
4.
Prohibition of false trade descriptions.
Subject to the provisions of this Act, any person who in the course of a trade or business:
(a)
applies a false trade description to any goods; or
(b)
supplies any goods to which a false trade description is applied,
shall be guilty of an offence.


5.
False trade descriptions.
For the purposes of this Part :
(a)
a false trade description means a trade description which by reason of anything contained therein or omitted therefrom is false or likely to mislead in a material respect as regards the goods to which it is applied or in connection with which it is used, and includes every alteration of a trade description whether by way of addition, effacement or otherwise which makes the description false or likely to mislead in a material respect; and
(b)
a false indication, or anything likely to be taken as an indication which would be false, that any goods comply with a standard specified or recognised by any person or implied by the approval of any person shall be deemed to be a false trade description, if there is no such person or no standard as specified, recognised or implied.

[Zared]

I would think that all fctories including F1 would have some defective duds floating around since these are mass produced pots. I don't know enough about their level of quality control in 80s though so I might be wrong.

Honestly though Im confused about why your buying pots on eBay anyway since you live in HK. Wouldn't it be cheaper and less risky to buy locally? I would think $1000 would buy a pretty decient pot.

[kyarazen]

I would think that all fctories including F1 would have some defective duds floating around since these are mass produced pots. I don't know enough about their level of quality control in 80s though so I might be wrong.

Honestly though Im confused about why your buying pots on eBay anyway since you live in HK. Wouldn't it be cheaper and less risky to buy locally? I would think $1000 would buy a pretty decient pot.

clay shavings are not considered "defects", it is just how the pots are touched up during manufacture, i.e. in mid 60s there is a spinning shaving tool that was used that lead to certain "circular marks" near the inner base of the pot, and also the way the inside of the rim is "corrected". millions of pots were made by f1 during this period/era.

material wise there's also variation and evolution.. depending on the availability of clay from the yixing ore mining factory. i.e. pre 60s pear skin red clay, to early 60s fine red clay.. to late 60s to early 70s red clay.. to mid 70s red clay.. to end 70s red clay.. to end 70s red qingshui clay.. to early 80s niangao and red clays... to mid 80s red clay.. to end 80s red clay.. to early 90s red clay... to end of factory red clay...

then there is also the F2 made on behalf of F1 pots etc during the 82-85 phase. and then the myriad of labels i.e. '78 round green labels in a post 82 fang yuan box etc. and many of that interesting complications..

[jayinhk]

As someone who doesn't read Chinese, accessing that kind of info is very difficult! Your expertise is always appreciated. I'm barely scraping the surface of the Factory pot world for sure.

As for HK and Yixing...prices here are very high now because HK has been raped and pillaged by Mainland buyers. 80s-90s pots can go for over US$200, easy. Yes, the money I spent could have bought me some very nice teapots locally.

You can still find some great deals on eBay if you get lucky, since a lot of Yixing pots made it overseas and people sometimes have no idea what they're worth or even are, but a lot of Yixing collectors are on there and looking for deals.

It is tricky identifying good pots from pics, though, but I learn from every mistake. This seller's pots were close enough to fool me from the pics, and even when they arrived, even if they were a little sloppier than my other Factory 1 stuff.

I guess I trusted the seller because he was from Singapore and there are strict laws over there, and because he had pots that looked really good in the pictures. The pots had no off odors, hold water, and even sounded like genuine Factory 1 pots. That and a few of the early pots had F1 square/circle stickers :'( and his listings were only visible on eBay Singapore for a long while, so I thought I'd found a seller who didn't know what he was doing. Turns out *I* didn't know what *I* was doing, but I am going to try and fight this. At least he won't be able to burn anyone else!

[ricegeek]

Sorry to hear about the scam. I also bought a few f1 yixings on eBay, but also try to limit myself lower price items, mostly so I can learn, since I don't really know how else to get access to F1 pots in the west. The other thing I do is stay with sellers from the US to narrow the range of pots I have to dig through, but I also feel there seem to be so much more fakery from vendors in Asia (there are exceptions such as
lukevecent), I just feel more confident focusing on yixing from US sellers.

I hope it all works out for you!

[theredbaron]

Do not buy Yixing pots that are supposedly old over ebay, or from unknown sellers. Chances to get a deal are extremely slim. Simple logic - why would a seller from anywhere in Asia need to go through the trouble of ebay when he gets much better prices and can sell it any day by simply offering it locally. 99% of the market for Yixing pots is in Asia's tea centers, there simply is no need for anyone into authentic old yixing pots to offer it on ebay to a world wide market.

For the western market there are two shops on the web who do sell reasonably priced oldish pots - essence of tea and chawangshop - who source their pots locally. These pots sold there give good and solid brews - which is what a tea drinker wants.
Anything beyond that price range and age should only be done under advice by experts, and if one wants to enter the game of collecting old pots one should get proper tutelage (which means living for an extended period in one of Asia's tea centers), and be ready and able to invest serious money. The days of cheap old pots are over, and will not come back.

[jayinhk]

Do not buy Yixing pots that are supposedly old over ebay, or from unknown sellers. Chances to get a deal are extremely slim. Simple logic - why would a seller from anywhere in Asia need to go through the trouble of ebay when he gets much better prices and can sell it any day by simply offering it locally. 99% of the market for Yixing pots is in Asia's tea centers, there simply is no need for anyone into authentic old yixing pots to offer it on ebay to a world wide market.

For the western market there are two shops on the web who do sell reasonably priced oldish pots - essence of tea and chawangshop - who source their pots locally. These pots sold there give good and solid brews - which is what a tea drinker wants.
Anything beyond that price range and age should only be done under advice by experts, and if one wants to enter the game of collecting old pots one should get proper tutelage (which means living for an extended period in one of Asia's tea centers), and be ready and able to invest serious money. The days of cheap old pots are over, and will not come back.

While this is true in most cases, even in 2016, I have gotten good deals on good pots in both Hong Kong and Singapore, but that is much harder to achieve. I thought since the seller was in Singapore he'd be less likely to sell outright fakes since the laws are so strict there. I thought wrong. I am, however, protected by the law, and he should be soiling his britches right about now! Selling goods with a false trade description is a jailable offense in HK and Singapore.

While EoT and Chawangshop have good pots for fair prices, it is still possible to get Factory pots for less, even in HK and SG. Buying fakes is, however, more likely than buying the real thing in today's market. These pots looked close from the pictures, down to the maker's marks inside the lid and the base stamps and the clay type and even the sound of the lids scraping and being placed back on the teapots, but they weren't made to the same standard as F1 pots. I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt until I received pots that had clearly been spray painted!

Interestingly the pots that I did try made surprisingly good tea!