Woo hoo, another random question for Chamekke!
My best kyuusu, in addition to a box, contained a thin orange cloth with the maker's stamp on it. At first I thought very little of this cloth and used it as a general purpose tea towl. Naturally, it has accumulated a few stains.
In an attempt to clean it without tearing it to bits (it is not hemmed along the edges and they have been frayed since I got it), I boiled it in a bit of water. This didn't do much for the stains, but at least I know it is sanitary.
I started to wonder what the purpose of this cloth is (we all know now that the box is very valuable). I found two similar items in Japanese tea culture -- first is a very similar looking cloth included with some chawans for use during tea ceremony for wiping the rim. Second is a "gift cloth" used to cover a gift similar to wrapping paper here. However, examples of these I managed to find were much more extravagant and made of silk.
So, does this cloth have a lot of value as part of the set? Does it have a special use?
May 17th, '08, 20:36
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chamekke
I don't know what that cloth is called, but yes, it's considered part of the wrapping. It's to protect the pottery inside its box. Don't forget, Japan is a country of earthquakes. My guess is, it was understood that the item could rattle around inside its box (and possibly be damaged) if it was not further protected during a rumbler.
I'm not sure, but the cloths I've seen typically have some sort of stamp on them. I think it's one more item that establishes the provenance of the piece. In my limited experience, at least, the cloth always seems to be yellow or orange.
It was Robert Yellin, I think, who made the point that an item of pottery that has lost its tomobako (wooden box with artist's stamp and signature) also loses about half its resale value. Amongst the Japanese, provenance is super-important, and this is proved by the "wrappings" as much as by the stamp or chop on the item itself.
P.S. Ooh! I checked and found a couple of online references to the cloth. One says that the cloth is typically stamped with the potter's hanko or official family-name stamp. It is one further proof of the piece's authenticity. The other gives a name for it: tomokire. I think it means "accompaniment cloth" or "accompanying cloth", just as tomobako means "box [bako] that accompanies" (the piece of pottery.
I'm not sure, but the cloths I've seen typically have some sort of stamp on them. I think it's one more item that establishes the provenance of the piece. In my limited experience, at least, the cloth always seems to be yellow or orange.
It was Robert Yellin, I think, who made the point that an item of pottery that has lost its tomobako (wooden box with artist's stamp and signature) also loses about half its resale value. Amongst the Japanese, provenance is super-important, and this is proved by the "wrappings" as much as by the stamp or chop on the item itself.
P.S. Ooh! I checked and found a couple of online references to the cloth. One says that the cloth is typically stamped with the potter's hanko or official family-name stamp. It is one further proof of the piece's authenticity. The other gives a name for it: tomokire. I think it means "accompaniment cloth" or "accompanying cloth", just as tomobako means "box [bako] that accompanies" (the piece of pottery.
Last edited by chamekke on May 17th, '08, 21:01, edited 1 time in total.
Thank you, chamekke!
It makes sense that the cloth may have been intended as packing and insulating material, but it was not used as such. It arrived neatly folded at the top of the box, but the kyusu itself was most securely wrapped in bubblewrap, both the pot and the tomobako also stuffed with packing peanuts.
I made a guess that the cloth was intended for polishing the kyusu, but I really don't know.
It makes sense that the cloth may have been intended as packing and insulating material, but it was not used as such. It arrived neatly folded at the top of the box, but the kyusu itself was most securely wrapped in bubblewrap, both the pot and the tomobako also stuffed with packing peanuts.
I made a guess that the cloth was intended for polishing the kyusu, but I really don't know.
May 17th, '08, 21:05
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chamekke
Well, from what I've been reading since I wrote the first version of my posting, I was too hasty in assuming that its primary function was to protect the pottery piece.
I think now that that the primary function is to prove (or further support) the piece's authenticity. Maybe the protective function is either secondary, incidental, or optional.
I had jumped to that conclusion because I've received so many pieces with the yellow cloth wrapped around the pottery item. Of course, it's also true that I've received many a tomobako whose ribbon was very badly tied. It's probably a mistake to assume that because a Japanese seller deals in lots of tea-related items, that s/he is thoroughly knowledgeable about them or is a Chadou practitioner. Sometimes I suspect that their knowledge is as incomplete as ours!
I think now that that the primary function is to prove (or further support) the piece's authenticity. Maybe the protective function is either secondary, incidental, or optional.
I had jumped to that conclusion because I've received so many pieces with the yellow cloth wrapped around the pottery item. Of course, it's also true that I've received many a tomobako whose ribbon was very badly tied. It's probably a mistake to assume that because a Japanese seller deals in lots of tea-related items, that s/he is thoroughly knowledgeable about them or is a Chadou practitioner. Sometimes I suspect that their knowledge is as incomplete as ours!
______________________
"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cosy, doesn't try it on."
- Billy Connolly
"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cosy, doesn't try it on."
- Billy Connolly
The knot is actually not that easy to tie well....
I think the cloth really offers no protection of any real sort -- it's too thin to be meaningful, and certainly in the case of shipping, using only the yellow cloth is almost irresponsible.
I do believe you're supposed to use it to wrap around the piece... because for some items, such as pewter ware, the yellow cloth helps protect the piece from moisture, etc, that can discolour the piece. It doesn't matter as much when you're dealing with pottery, but I buy a number of pewter chaire and they can get nasty if not carefully looked after.
I think the cloth really offers no protection of any real sort -- it's too thin to be meaningful, and certainly in the case of shipping, using only the yellow cloth is almost irresponsible.
I do believe you're supposed to use it to wrap around the piece... because for some items, such as pewter ware, the yellow cloth helps protect the piece from moisture, etc, that can discolour the piece. It doesn't matter as much when you're dealing with pottery, but I buy a number of pewter chaire and they can get nasty if not carefully looked after.
May 18th, '08, 11:42
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That's for sure. Anything that's shipped needs to be extremely well protected. A seller from England shipped me a chawan in its tomobako with no padding whatsoever. Of course, it arrived in pieces. It was probably broken during postal handling before it even left his city. There was no yellow cloth in that instance, but as you say, it wouldn't have mattered. The chawan would have arrived in just as many pieces.MarshalN wrote:I think the cloth really offers no protection of any real sort -- it's too thin to be meaningful, and certainly in the case of shipping, using only the yellow cloth is almost irresponsible.
Pewter chaire! Can you please share photos? I'd love to see them!MarshalN wrote:I do believe you're supposed to use it to wrap around the piece... because for some items, such as pewter ware, the yellow cloth helps protect the piece from moisture, etc, that can discolour the piece. It doesn't matter as much when you're dealing with pottery, but I buy a number of pewter chaire and they can get nasty if not carefully looked after.
May 18th, '08, 18:55
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chamekke
Arrrgggh the knot!MarshalN wrote:The knot is actually not that easy to tie well....
.
I got my first two pieces...opened the box and went for one bubble wrap,
peeled it open,found the box all nicely tied up, and said to my self "I need to pay attention to this or I will never get it back right."
Then I said "screw it I can't wait. I'll look closely at the second box."
Gave in to my lust and ripped 'er open. Nice Hagi mmmmm!!!
However the 2nd had no knot around the box.
I've been killin'n myself trying to retie it.
Apr 14th, '09, 19:08
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Good thing I am an Eagle, took a few tries, but got it. I think one end goes under, and one goes over the "middle part of cloth ribbon."
I am getting quite a collection of tomobako (wood boxes), some I use to display the piece, but having to keep track of each piece of documentation, orange cloth, matching boxes to pieces, etc. It is a nightmare waiting to happen.
I am getting quite a collection of tomobako (wood boxes), some I use to display the piece, but having to keep track of each piece of documentation, orange cloth, matching boxes to pieces, etc. It is a nightmare waiting to happen.
