What's the difference? Yixing comparison

[Drax]

So, please bear with me, as I'm relatively new to all of this. I was looking around the internet at various Yixing pots. I decided to focus on a specific type to do general comparisons. Here's the problem I ran into:

(And I saw I'm not supposed to post links since I'm under 6 posts and 30 days, so again, please bear with verbal descriptions):

1. Dragon Tea House on eBay selling a "Dragon Ball" green Yixing pot, 160ml for 85.
2. YSLLC on eBay selling a "Rong Tian" green Yixing pot, 170ml, for 35.

These first two actually look like similar material ("ben shan" clay).

Then out of left field:

3. Royal Tea House selling a "Green Eggshell Puer Pot," a green Yixing pot, (120ml?) for 38.

This last one is a completely different green, although it does seem to say a different type of clay was used ("Li Ni"), although again it still calls it a green clay.

So now my questions...

1. Are there different types of "green clay?"
2. Why the huge price difference in the first two?
3. Are there any practical differences between a $30 pot and a $100 pot?
4. I would definitely like to get a hand-made pot. What are some things to look out for to discern machine-made ones? (assuming the vendor hasn't said, which is usually not a good sign anyway)

Sorry for all the crazy questions, I'm just a bit confused right now, and I would greatly appreciate any help!

[t4texas]

This topic on Yixing construction methods may be helpful:

http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=6415

[heavydoom]

that is a tough question. as you start out, make mistakes and learn from them. read up on the various forums like here and blogs and learn as you go along. you will soon find the ins and outs of the various sizes/prices of your tea pots. you will find out who to buy pots from, tea wares....etc.....and most important thing of all, don't be mislead by the wonderful adjective : yi xing.

[Drax]

That's an interesting thread, T4, thanks for linking it.

Definitely seems like a world fraught with misleading stuff...!

[Trioxin]

I've looked at the first two pots myself. I'm not an expert in the least, but they clay used looks very similar in both. I'm guessing the price difference is based simply on the artist. I can tell you I've been very happy with the pots I've purchased from Yunnan Sourcing. They seem to be of very nice quality for a very reasonable price. I'd recommend emailing the sellers and asking them for more information on the pots. Both vendors are extremely nice people and are more than willing to answer these sort of questions.

[edkrueger]

They look like they are the same clay. The YSLLC looks better made. Someone told me that YSLLC’s ben shan lu ni is really bai ma zi ni. The same is probably true of he other.

[chrl42]

1. Are there different types of "green clay?"

Haven't checked out 1 one, but 2 is certainly not Ben Shan Lu ni, it's Bai Ma Zi ni. Difference is Ben Shan Lu ni is the most expensive clay sold in Yixing(at least among ones on the market) and Bai Ma Zi ni or Bai Ma Duan ni is sorta BSLN-looking clay with a lower quality.

I would definitely like to get a hand-made pot. What are some things to look out for to discern machine-made ones? (assuming the vendor hasn't said, which is usually not a good sign anyway)

Hand-made pots are not generally seen, especially overseas markets. deeho.com seems to have some good hand-made pots..for difference, t4texas' link might help

[cupioneer]

So, please bear with me, as I'm relatively new to all of this. I was looking around the internet at various Yixing pots. I decided to focus on a specific type to do general comparisons. Here's the problem I ran into:

(And I saw I'm not supposed to post links since I'm under 6 posts and 30 days, so again, please bear with verbal descriptions):

1. Dragon Tea House on eBay selling a "Dragon Ball" green Yixing pot, 160ml for 85.
2. YSLLC on eBay selling a "Rong Tian" green Yixing pot, 170ml, for 35.

These first two actually look like similar material ("ben shan" clay).

Then out of left field:

3. Royal Tea House selling a "Green Eggshell Puer Pot," a green Yixing pot, (120ml?) for 38.

This last one is a completely different green, although it does seem to say a different type of clay was used ("Li Ni"), although again it still calls it a green clay.

So now my questions...

1. Are there different types of "green clay?"
2. Why the huge price difference in the first two?
3. Are there any practical differences between a $30 pot and a $100 pot?
4. I would definitely like to get a hand-made pot. What are some things to look out for to discern machine-made ones? (assuming the vendor hasn't said, which is usually not a good sign anyway)

Sorry for all the crazy questions, I'm just a bit confused right now, and I would greatly appreciate any help!

Last week, I bought one of the Dragon Tea House green pots (the "large xi shi" version). If you don't mind waiting a week or two, I'll post some pics and a report on it. It's made by the same people as the "dragon ball" version you've referenced above, and most likely using the same clay. I'm not the most experienced when it comes to yixing teapots, but I think I have some pretty good comparison pieces, as my other sources have been Hou De and Jing Tea Shop.

Some other people have bought the YSLLC one. They discuss it in this thread here: http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... t=ben+shan

[Drax]

Thanks for the feedback everybody, it's been extremely helpful!

I went ahead a picked up a couple of pots. I'll be focusing on greens, but I bought a number of Oolongs to try out, and I'll set aside a pot for the day when I'm ready to try Puerh.

Or do I need to try black in between...? Hm.

[odarwin]

i have that pot from yunnansourcing, i got a xi shi version...
i use it in my office, here is the picture, its poorly shot...



the gray one i got from china, it forgot what clay exactly it is but i think its hui ni...
i like it, and it has streaks of red clay mixed in with the grey, and the seller said that as i season it, it will turn brownish in appearance over time. i purchased it around 2 years ago, but just got to really use it starting 2 months ago when i brought it to the office. since then, ive been using it everyday. it has a sort of glossy finish to it that i like, since it doesnt stain a lot. as i season it, i would assume that the patina would really come from the inside of the pot... but only time will tell....

going back to the ben shan lv ni... i like the shape of it, but its too round to say that its hand made. i like the color, but i think the potter is not that experienced yet... i say this because im speculating that there are techniques to making a pot with a specific type of clay, and for tuan ni types of clay, again, this is just my speculation, that there should be a certain degree of glossiness to the finish so that the tea wont stain too much on the outside of the pot... ive used this pot for a month already and its really stained a lot...

back in china when i got the grey pot, the seller also had a yellow pot, (which i regret today that i did not buy), and it had the same finish as my grey pot.... im speculating that these light colored pot should have certain degree of "smoothness" and "glossiness" to it rather than a rough surface so that the tea wont stain outside too much, and that the patina would "come from the inside"

as for the ben shan lv ni you are asking, its a pot that easily gets stained... unlike my other pots, i clean it more often, or else it would look unhygienic to use when there are other people having tea with you.. but i like it, and thats all that has to matter...

i hope that people who know better in this forum would correct or verify the things i said, as to my little experience, they are just speculations...

by the way, here is the site where i got the grey pot, http://www.3066ts.cn/
-darwin

[chrl42]

i have that pot from yunnansourcing, i got a xi shi version...
i use it in my office, here is the picture, its poorly shot...

the gray one i got from china, it forgot what clay exactly it is but i think its hui ni...
i like it, and it has streaks of red clay mixed in with the grey, and the seller said that as i season it, it will turn brownish in appearance over time. i purchased it around 2 years ago, but just got to really use it starting 2 months ago when i brought it to the office. since then, ive been using it everyday. it has a sort of glossy finish to it that i like, since it doesnt stain a lot. as i season it, i would assume that the patina would really come from the inside of the pot... but only time will tell....

going back to the ben shan lv ni... i like the shape of it, but its too round to say that its hand made. i like the color, but i think the potter is not that experienced yet... i say this because im speculating that there are techniques to making a pot with a specific type of clay, and for tuan ni types of clay, again, this is just my speculation, that there should be a certain degree of glossiness to the finish so that the tea wont stain too much on the outside of the pot... ive used this pot for a month already and its really stained a lot...

back in china when i got the grey pot, the seller also had a yellow pot, (which i regret today that i did not buy), and it had the same finish as my grey pot.... im speculating that these light colored pot should have certain degree of "smoothness" and "glossiness" to it rather than a rough surface so that the tea wont stain outside too much, and that the patina would "come from the inside"

as for the ben shan lv ni you are asking, its a pot that easily gets stained... unlike my other pots, i clean it more often, or else it would look unhygienic to use when there are other people having tea with you.. but i like it, and thats all that has to matter...

i hope that people who know better in this forum would correct or verify the things i said, as to my little experience, they are just speculations...

by the way, here is the site where i got the grey pot, http://www.3066ts.cn/
-darwin

Dear, darwin.

The pot you have, Hui ni..

Hui - grey color, appears when one yixing clay has lots of extra particles(quartz, iron, mangan, silica, alumina etc..). The Chinese long time called it 'Qing Shui ni'.

Only that, original Qing Hui ni has gone long before, most of Hui ni are a result of Duan ni/Zi ni mixed or contained with Shi Huang or cobalt oxide, mangan oxide etc..

I want you to know that China is like a jungle..original yixing clay?? no more..no more...I just want to beg anyone who visit China not to buy ANY of yixing teapots. Unless he visits Wu Yu Tai or Maliandao or some HK renowned yixing shops and have a degree of experience of yixing..

The website you provided, appears be of Wu Qun Shang, high level crafts and arts master. But normally high level ones' pots cost over 1000 USD, so it's rather of his studios' but from website tells none of introduction, background, displayin pots..so now I'm wondering..

Peace

[odarwin]

thanks for your inputs,

yup the website is from a master craft, and the pot i got is probably made by one of his apprentice or something, the seller said that he is niece or nephew of the master, and used to have a shop just across my office in fujian quanzhou, but now the shop is closed and moved to shanghai in xu jia hui. i forgot the name but his surname is wu. used to be, when his shop was still open in quanzhou, lots of people would drop by and get pots from him, probably people who pre-ordered pots or something... and i sit there for hours on end, just chatting and having tea with the people and the seller. that seller is probably one of the frequent posters' on the website i mentioned, but i cant read much chinese.... by the way, i got the pot in the price range of 70-100 usd at that time (2 years ago). and i really dont know much about the clay either or who really made the pot... the seller just told me that it will have a brownish color after some time...

ill try to get a decent picture of the bottom mark... perhaps you have more info on it, would really appreciate your input

thanks!
-darwin

[gingkoseto]

[quote="chrl42] I want you to know that China is like a jungle..original yixing clay?? no more..no more...I just want to beg anyone who visit China not to buy ANY of yixing teapots. Unless he visits Wu Yu Tai or Maliandao or some HK renowned yixing shops and have a degree of experience of yixing..

The website you provided, appears be of Wu Qun Shang, high level crafts and arts master. But normally high level ones' pots cost over 1000 USD, so it's rather of his studios' but from website tells none of introduction, background, displayin pots..so now I'm wondering..

Peace[/quote]

Oh!! You just killed my last hope to get a decent yixing zi sha that is reasonably priced

I just read it somewhere yesterday that China allows 250 tons of zisha clay to be exploited yearly, and there are 10,000 tons of zisha products entering the market every year. And I was thinking I still had 5% hope to get a real thing, and buy going to a reliable retailer I could promote the percentage of hope to maybe 15%

Studying zisha is like geology science and not of great interest to me So far I only buy inexpensive ones. If they happen to be not bad, that's great. If they are of cheap quality, I don't lose much money

[chrl42]

Oh!! You just killed my last hope to get a decent yixing zi sha that is reasonably priced

I just read it somewhere yesterday that China allows 250 tons of zisha clay to be exploited yearly, and there are 10,000 tons of zisha products entering the market every year. And I was thinking I still had 5% hope to get a real thing, and buy going to a reliable retailer I could promote the percentage of hope to maybe 15%

Studying zisha is like geology science and not of great interest to me So far I only buy inexpensive ones. If they happen to be not bad, that's great. If they are of cheap quality, I don't lose much money

That's news to me as well, considering it was 95' when the last mine of Huang Long Mt. was closed by goverment. Then it moved to Tan Xi, another mine near Huang Long Mt. was being mined then saw the closing 5 years ago.

Recently from Hu Fu, the main amount of Zisha come from limited quantity. There are all Zisha, the purple clay. But shows different charactertics per region. Another regions like Fudong, Chuan Fu, Hong Wei might as well get exploited for demand of clay.

------------These were the clay from Yixing, so-called Zisha clay

Then there is mud-like Zhejiang clay that dominate the fake market, or long time favored Chao Zhou or Taiwanese local clay in shape of Zhuni as well as Hunan and other provinces keep filling 95% of blank!

[Drax]

Okay, very interesting... but now I'm confused (yes, it happens very easily on the topic of tea for me).

I take the conversation to mean that there's no "original" Yixing clay floating around. Okay, that's understandable. What are pots sold as "yixing" made from then? Just similar clay from other places?

How do you know you even have something that's made from a good type of porous mineral clay..., i.e. the point of getting such a pot (as far as I knew)?