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Feb 24th, '09, 07:29
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What clay is this?

by Ritva » Feb 24th, '09, 07:29

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I have these two pretty yixing pots. The pumpkin one is from Jing Tea Shop and it is said to be Xiao Hong Ni clay. The three-legged pot I got from Lau Yu Fat Tea Shop yesterday. Their website is in chinese and this is how the clay was described: 紅皮龍
I used Babelfish and it was translated as "Red Pi Long ". I remember reading that Hong Pi Long is same clay as Hong Qing Shui Ni, so I thought that ok, this is Qing Shui Ni clay. When the pot arrived yesterday I noticed that the clay looks very similar than in the pumpkin pot. Are Xiao Hong Ni and Qing Shui Ni really so similar looking? Or am I remembering things incorrectly and Hong Pi Long is not same as Qing Shui Ni? Here are some close shots. The color of the clay is actually more red, very much like in the first photo where the two pots are together.

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Pumpkin - does this look like Hong Ni?

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Three-legged - does this look like Qing Shui Ni?

Both pots have that pure clay smell, the smell of hot rocks. The pumpkin pot "sizzles" when hot water is poured over it and three-legged pot doesn't. So it seems to me that the clay in pumpkin pot is more porous because it seems to absorb water more readily. But isn't Hong Ni supposed to be "hard" clay that does not absorb much? Or does the burning temperature in kiln have big effect on the porosity of clay?

I love both of these pots but it would be nice to know what they really are...

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Feb 24th, '09, 09:19
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by thanks » Feb 24th, '09, 09:19

I'm definitely no expert, but I believe that Xiao Hong Ni is also known as "modern Zhuni" which is in fact a Hong Ni based blend. I could be wrong, and we do have a few very knowledgeable people on the subject so hopefully they can add their 2 cents.

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Feb 24th, '09, 10:57
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by gingkoseto » Feb 24th, '09, 10:57

I have no idea about the clay. But may I take a free ride and ask about my clay too? :D I am guessing it's hong ni (red clay). Is it anything different from the kind of clay used to make red bricks? (maybe more density?) or the kind of red terra cotta used to make plant pots?

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Feb 24th, '09, 16:17
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by yee » Feb 24th, '09, 16:17

Take pictures of their bottoms. Then ill probably tell you.

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Feb 24th, '09, 21:31
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by chrl42 » Feb 24th, '09, 21:31

I am no expert either.

Telling my opinion, it doesn't look like Hong Pi Long or Xiao Hong ni or Qing Shui ni.

Color resembles Xiao Hong ni type but those little sparking dots remind me of Hu Fu Hong ni.

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Feb 24th, '09, 23:40
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by hop_goblin » Feb 24th, '09, 23:40

chrl42 wrote:I am no expert either.

Telling my opinion, it doesn't look like Hong Pi Long or Xiao Hong ni or Qing Shui ni.

Color resembles Xiao Hong ni type but those little sparking dots remind me of Hu Fu Hong ni.
Well Charlie, I have read your comments on this forum as well as others on the subject of pots and if you are not an expert or something atleast close to it, you have really fooled many. :D

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Feb 25th, '09, 01:37
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by odarwin » Feb 25th, '09, 01:37

i hope you enjoy that pumpkin pot...

i have the pear pot that jing tea shop sold together with that pot you have,
and i use it to brew 2 or more year old shou pu erh and its really nice!

-darwin

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Feb 25th, '09, 02:39
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by thanks » Feb 25th, '09, 02:39

hop_goblin wrote:
chrl42 wrote:I am no expert either.

Telling my opinion, it doesn't look like Hong Pi Long or Xiao Hong ni or Qing Shui ni.

Color resembles Xiao Hong ni type but those little sparking dots remind me of Hu Fu Hong ni.
Well Charlie, I have read your comments on this forum as well as others on the subject of pots and if you are not an expert or something atleast close to it, you have really fooled many. :D
:lol: In my head when I first saw the subject of the post without reading the actual post, I thought "I hope Charlie chimes in here."

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Feb 25th, '09, 03:46
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by chrl42 » Feb 25th, '09, 03:46

hop_goblin wrote:
chrl42 wrote:I am no expert either.

Telling my opinion, it doesn't look like Hong Pi Long or Xiao Hong ni or Qing Shui ni.

Color resembles Xiao Hong ni type but those little sparking dots remind me of Hu Fu Hong ni.
Well Charlie, I have read your comments on this forum as well as others on the subject of pots and if you are not an expert or something atleast close to it, you have really fooled many. :D
Not cos I wanted to :(
My intention was to bring it on and reason together. Rather than to believe and understand everything sellers say.

Below are my comprehension so far.

1) Zhuni, Zhuni is very delicate clay and shrinks highly that sounds like metal when tapping.
ImageImage
Above is Huanglong mt. (few) and Zhaozhuang (Lao Zhuni). And there are Xiao Mei Yao and Hu Fu (recently falsely known as Da Hong Pao ni) zhuni as well.

2) Xiao Hongni, ignoring what numerous articles say, I think what as considered 'Xiao Hongni' today is from Chuanbu, so-called Yi Chang Xiao Hongni (sometimes Chuanbu Hongni). Hongni is different from Zhuni, no wrinkle, no metal sound. Almost like normal Zisha with red color.
Image

3) Da Hongni, is Huanglong mt. Hongni, stronger in red color.

4) Hong Pi Long is recently frequent used clay from edge of Huanglong mt. Almost similar to Qing Shui ni with color redder.

Image

5) Qing Shui ni is common Zini type of clay that makes up most of Zisha.

correct me if I'm wrong.

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Feb 25th, '09, 06:02
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by Ritva » Feb 25th, '09, 06:02

odarwin wrote:i hope you enjoy that pumpkin pot...
i have the pear pot that jing tea shop sold together with that pot you have,
and i use it to brew 2 or more year old shou pu erh and its really nice!
-darwin
Thanks Darwin, I remember you have the pear pot and I do enjoy the pumpkin pot. I use it for highly roasted TGY. It has started to season well. It has already taken some flavor of TGY so that when I open the lid the pot smells really good. I haven't decided yet what to dedicate the other pot for.

Here are photos of the bottom seals that yee asked for. Do they give any extra information?

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Pumpkin pot

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Three-legged pot

Charlie, thank you very much for your opinions! Do you think both pots are made of similar clay? Some type of Hong Ni, maybe that Hu Fu Hong Ni? I looked at the photos you attached but since I haven't seen those clays in nature it's hard to tell.

I had noticed those little sparkling dots you mention and both pots have them. Can they be from similar clay even though one pot is more porous than the other? When pumpkin pot is submerged in water it clearly absorbs water because I can hear a sizzling sound.

It's really nice to be able to ask advice and opinions in TeaChat. I have no other way of learning about yixings than Internet. Chinese tea culture is not very known in Finland. I think there is probably one shop in Finland that sells yixing pots and that's like 400 kilometres from where I live and they probably have two or three pots to sell...

Feb 25th, '09, 07:12
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by yee » Feb 25th, '09, 07:12

to Ritva
I got your pictures to the "expert". So as soon as he gives me th ansver ill tell you.

You see, its almost impossible to say about teapot from its look. We have a lot of serious written information on different clays, you should try to find such things in english.

http://chayiorg-ru.blogspot.com/search/ ... %20чайники just look at those

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Feb 25th, '09, 15:27
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by Ritva » Feb 25th, '09, 15:27

yee wrote:to Ritva
I got your pictures to the "expert". So as soon as he gives me th ansver ill tell you.

You see, its almost impossible to say about teapot from its look. We have a lot of serious written information on different clays, you should try to find such things in english.

http://chayiorg-ru.blogspot.com/search/ ... %20чайники just look at those
Thanks for an interesting link!

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Feb 26th, '09, 00:02
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by chrl42 » Feb 26th, '09, 00:02

Ritva wrote: Charlie, thank you very much for your opinions! Do you think both pots are made of similar clay? Some type of Hong Ni, maybe that Hu Fu Hong Ni? I looked at the photos you attached but since I haven't seen those clays in nature it's hard to tell.

I had noticed those little sparkling dots you mention and both pots have them. Can they be from similar clay even though one pot is more porous than the other? When pumpkin pot is submerged in water it clearly absorbs water because I can hear a sizzling sound.

It's really nice to be able to ask advice and opinions in TeaChat. I have no other way of learning about yixings than Internet. Chinese tea culture is not very known in Finland. I think there is probably one shop in Finland that sells yixing pots and that's like 400 kilometres from where I live and they probably have two or three pots to sell...
That clay indeed resemble a lot. It indeed looks like Hu Fu Hongni or Hong Pi Long or mixed clay. (not much Qing Shui ni). You have to know Hong Pi Long is what used most frequently along with Qing Shui ni today.

Absorbing has to do with temp of firing, mixing clay as well..I've never used Hong Pi Long, but Qing Shui ni/Duan ni/modern clays/mixed clays were the most absorbing to me so far.

And there is a quote before you get to the Chinese tea, 'never get fooled by Puerh&Yixing' :wink:

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Feb 26th, '09, 10:53
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by Ritva » Feb 26th, '09, 10:53

chrl42 wrote:
And there is a quote before you get to the Chinese tea, 'never get fooled by Puerh&Yixing' :wink:
Oh yeah, I've noticed that this yixing business is complicated... :)

Feb 28th, '09, 11:25
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by yee » Feb 28th, '09, 11:25

well that guy only sayd that the first taapot made by 军贞 Tszyun Zhen(in not sure if i write it right way) and the second by 蒋焕新 Tszyan Huan Sin. He sayd it doesnt say nothing about clay. I think ill be asking other people)))

The business with Yixing is not this complicated but you should make sure that you buy these things from right people.

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