Tea Expansion

[bcos]

So as I was having some TKY from TG tonight, I ran into a question with my brewing times due to the fact that it didn't look like the leaves had gotten a chance to fully expand and release all their flavor. I'm wondering if this is because I used to much leaf in my 60mL gaiwan, and the leaves couldn't expand fully.



This was taken after about 8 or 9 steeps from about 25s ramping up to about 40s. Most of the tea was taken out by the time I thought to take a picture, and it's kinda hard to interpret from the pic, but do those leaves look like they've expanded to their optimal size?

[JustinW]

I'm interested about this as well. There are a couple of oolongs that have looked the same for me, but not tgy. I suspect it may have to do with the level of roasting, but that's just a hunch. Newb here

[scruffmcgruff]

From what I can tell, it doesn't look like there is nearly enough leaf in there! [Edit: I just noticed that you said most of the tea had been taken out. If the gaiwan was anywhere near that empty before, nevermind!] Some rolled oolongs just doesn't open up that much, particularly the more roasted ones (as Justin noticed). You only have to worry about too much leaf if you can't put the lid back on the gaiwan.

Actually, I've wondered if limited expansion is even a bad thing when it comes to gong fu brewing. It would make sense that less exposed leaf surface would allow the tea to last for more infusions, while the extra leaf used would still provide enough total surface area for each infusion to be worthwhile. Just a hunch, though!

[Trioxin]

A few of the heavier roasted TGY's I've had don't expand much either. They usually just unfurl a bit. If your getting 8 or 9 steeps out of it, I'm going to have to say your all good.

[Herb_Master]

Actually, I've wondered if limited expansion is even a bad thing when it comes to gong fu brewing.

+1

I've wondered that too, and the possibility that it allows later infusions to develop further layers of flavour without the earlier layers being totally faded!

[gingkoseto]

My observation on heavier roasts is very limited, but so far what I've seen all expand more slowly, but eventually expand to certain degree. I have a very heavy roast that didn't expand much and stay very much stiff without obvious expansion. A friend of mine said it might not be a good thing. Some tea was "killed" in improper or too much roasting. If the tea doesn't expand much till the end, probably it was "killed".

But what eventually counts is whether the flavor please you. I did find my "killed" tea more smokey and a bit sour. I am curious if it will recover over time so I am keeping it anyway

[Proinsias]

Yeah, the heavier the roast the more unlikely it seems the leaf will be returning back to its original form.

[teaguy]

Hey guys!

Sitting here with my TKY guru having some High Mt. Jin Xuen, and we started talking about this thread.

You're not using too much leaf - as stated above, you need to really fill that gaiwan before it's 'too much'.

TKY is unique in that it is roasted repeatedly to develop its flavor as part of the initial processing (averaging around 12 times, but that can vary). Because of this, the leaf has gotten 'brittle' and is stiffer than other oolongs, so it's usual for the leaf to only open about half (even after 7-8 steeps). The general proceedure is to roast the tea for 8-12 hrs, let it rest for hours or days, then roast again, making adjustments each time.

The TKY in your picture is very dark, and indicates that it was roasted at very high temperatures (higher than normal, in other words), which produces the darker color. The tea hasn't been 'killed' (from what we can tell in the photo), but has simply been processed this way to create a smokier, 'deeper' flavor. Whether they succeeded or not is for you to decide. It's a bit like pine on a campfire - if you char the outer layers, the inner wood is still intact, but if you continue to apply heat, you end up with charcoal, which is the case with this TKY. That isn't a bad thing, it's just a way of creating a specific taste that is smokier and 'woodier' if I may use that term, than other TKYs.

The leaf not opening has little to do with number of steeps. The roasting dries out the leaf more, and concentrates the enzymes, which allows for more steepings. You get a similar effect with aged oolongs that haven't been roasted as much - the leaf will open more fully than TKY, but you can still get 12-15 steeps (or more) with it. You can also try 'supersteeping' and see if you like that. Put about the same amount of leaf in the gaiwan, but steep the first 2 rounds for 3 minutes, then add a minute for each round after that you get a very interesting flavor.

Storing the tea won't alleviate the problem, so no need to set it aside. If you like the flavor, go ahead and enjoy it. By the way, can I ask where you got it? My teacher thinks it was likely re-processed in Hong Kong, as the higher temp roasting is common there.

Hope that helps out a bit. My guru is always interested to see what weterners think about Chinese teas, especially TKYs (his specialty). Thanks for posting the question.

[bcos]

Thanks for all the input guys!

So as it stands I'm using about 3g for 60mL (slightly less than 60mL because of leaf volume). As per your question teaguy, this is The Tea Gallery's Classic TKY.
http://www.theteagallery.com/Iron_Bodhi ... of-cib.htm

Initially all that I got out of this tea by just doing 20s infusions over and over, was a musky charcoal flavor, with the most minute sweet hints. Nothing really special at all. Then I started taking a hint from the very light color of the steeps, and decided to start gradually increasing the steep times from about 20s to 1min in 5s intervals. The flavor was much more interesting, and there were definitely more recognizable notes. The initial sip tasted like a very dark chocolate or even like a cacao bean. My favorite part was the finish though. Incredibly intense and recognizable apricot notes and flavors came out after percolating the tea over the taste buds.

This leads me to believe that this tea will probably benefit from much longer steeps, so the next time I have it I'm going to do more longer steeps or even try the 3m initial steeps like suggested.

[MarshalN]

BCOS... how much tea are you using? How much is in that gaiwan before you took the picture? Did you remove anything?

[bcos]

I started to dump the tea and was just looking through the leaves before I decided to put some back in and take the picture. The 60mL Gaiwan was completely full, but not enough to pop the lid off, by the 8th steep.

[MarshalN]

Hey guys!

Sitting here with my TKY guru having some High Mt. Jin Xuen, and we started talking about this thread.

You're not using too much leaf - as stated above, you need to really fill that gaiwan before it's 'too much'.

TKY is unique in that it is roasted repeatedly to develop its flavor as part of the initial processing (averaging around 12 times, but that can vary). Because of this, the leaf has gotten 'brittle' and is stiffer than other oolongs, so it's usual for the leaf to only open about half (even after 7-8 steeps). The general proceedure is to roast the tea for 8-12 hrs, let it rest for hours or days, then roast again, making adjustments each time.

The TKY in your picture is very dark, and indicates that it was roasted at very high temperatures (higher than normal, in other words), which produces the darker color. The tea hasn't been 'killed' (from what we can tell in the photo), but has simply been processed this way to create a smokier, 'deeper' flavor. Whether they succeeded or not is for you to decide. It's a bit like pine on a campfire - if you char the outer layers, the inner wood is still intact, but if you continue to apply heat, you end up with charcoal, which is the case with this TKY. That isn't a bad thing, it's just a way of creating a specific taste that is smokier and 'woodier' if I may use that term, than other TKYs.

The leaf not opening has little to do with number of steeps. The roasting dries out the leaf more, and concentrates the enzymes, which allows for more steepings. You get a similar effect with aged oolongs that haven't been roasted as much - the leaf will open more fully than TKY, but you can still get 12-15 steeps (or more) with it. You can also try 'supersteeping' and see if you like that. Put about the same amount of leaf in the gaiwan, but steep the first 2 rounds for 3 minutes, then add a minute for each round after that you get a very interesting flavor.

Storing the tea won't alleviate the problem, so no need to set it aside. If you like the flavor, go ahead and enjoy it. By the way, can I ask where you got it? My teacher thinks it was likely re-processed in Hong Kong, as the higher temp roasting is common there.

Hope that helps out a bit. My guru is always interested to see what weterners think about Chinese teas, especially TKYs (his specialty). Thanks for posting the question.

Actually, you are talking apples and oranges here... In Taiwan TGY is a PROCESS and in China TGY is a VARIETAL. This is very confusing but that's how the nomenclature has developed over time. From what I understand the Tea Gallery's TGY is a mainland TGY roasted on in Fujian.

[TIM]

I started to dump the tea and was just looking through the leaves before I decided to put some back in and take the picture. The 60mL Gaiwan was completely full, but not enough to pop the lid off, by the 8th steep.

This is my most practice traditional tgy, I even dedicated a pot for it. It's much better to brew it in a yixing, then a gaiwan, since its a classic roast, for Kung-fu brewing. Which means crushing some leaves at the bottom and building on top of it till almost full. The enjoyment, as you've mentioned, is at the end. The aroma and finish of coco and fruits will last for 15 mins and up afterwards. Using lesser leave IMO will be a waste, and Aging it is highly recommended. Btw, the leaves will not unfurl, no matter what.... the firing had penetrated to the core and kind of caramelized it, without charing it. What you are tasting as charcoal will be gone in 6 to 8 months aging. Hope this help.

[bcos]

Out of curiosity, what's the purpose of crushing the leaves at the bottom? Fitting in more tea?

[hooksie]

Then I started taking a hint from the very light color of the steeps, and decided to start gradually increasing the steep times from about 20s to 1min in 5s intervals. The flavor was much more interesting, and there were definitely more recognizable notes. The initial sip tasted like a very dark chocolate or even like a cacao bean. My favorite part was the finish though. Incredibly intense and recognizable apricot notes and flavors came out after percolating the tea over the taste buds.

Having just received an order with this tea, now you have me excited with anticipation.