Kyusu and different tea

[Marco]

Hello all,

I wonder how you handel this.
I have got two kyusu now and one little glaspot.

In a kyusu you should not mix up the teas.
So can I brew all Japanese greens in the same pot?
Can I even brew all other greens in the same as the Japanese?
What about whites and yellow teas?
And Oolong?

What should I realy sepparate in pots?
Okay for sure I will buy more pots in the future

Hope to get a good answer on that.

bye
Marco

[JRS22]

Are your kyusu glazed or unglazed?

[Chip]

IMHO. Generally, try not to mix too far from one type, but you can, but there can be intermingling of aromas and flavors. If the Kyusu is glazed, this is less of a factor or not a factor at all.

The roasted and grain type teas like Houjicha and Genmaicha can leave very lingering and rather strong flavors and aromas, avoid brewing these in your kyusu if you are going to brew more delicate teas in it like sencha.

[Marco]

Are your kyusu glazed or unglazed?

One is glazed (Kokoro from Den's - nice colour) and one is unglazed (from O-cha - my first one and I realy love it).

IMHO. Generally, try not to mix too far from one type, but you can, but there can be intermingling of aromas and flavors. If the Kyusu is glazed, this is less of a factor or not a factor at all.

The roasted and grain type teas like Houjicha and Genmaicha can leave very lingering and rather strong flavors and aromas, avoid brewing these in your kyusu if you are going to brew more delicate teas in it like sencha.

I have one for my sencha. Can I brew my gyokuro in it too? (till I get my hohin )
Can I brew Chinese greens in it too without problems?

Okay so houjicha and genmaicha in the glazed one? Or in my glas pot?

Can I brew different oolongs in one pot?

Which teas benefit from an unglazed pot?

And is the difference between a kyusu and a yixing pot only the shape or is there something else?

Again so many questions.
Thanks for the education
cheers
Marco

[Chip]

There are major differences in Yixing clay and Kyusu clay. Kyusu clay is not as porous and is less apt to absorb flavors and aromas. But some Kyusu clay may be more porous than others. I can often tell by the weight in conjunction with the thickness of the walls.

But a non glazed kyusu can and does over time. I know this from personal experience with a Kyusu I used for virtually everything. After years of use, there was this distinct sweetish flavor that would be noticable in any tea I brewed in it.

Sweet is good, right? Not necessarily, it bothered me more than enhanced the teas. I felt I was not getting the true tea flavor with that kyusu anymore.

Yeah, no problem brewing your gyo in your sencha pot for now. Chinese greens ... see above and decide for yourself.

Houjicha and genmaicha I usually brew in an old beat up pot ... but you should be OK with either the Den's or the glass.

[britt]

Houjicha and genmaicha I usually brew in an old beat up pot ... but you should be OK with either the Den's or the glass.

I definitely agree with Chip on this point. I brew pretty much any sencha in the same kyusus, but I use a glazed Somayaki dobin for genmaicha and houjicha.

[Tead Off]

This term 'absorptive' is bandied about when talking about different teapots. It is my understanding that clay absorption has a lot to do with the firing of clay at certain temperatures. Porcelain and stoneware, which most kyusu and yixing teapots are made from, are the least absorptive because of high firing temps. Earthenware is much more absorptive because of its low firing temp. There are actual tests for absorption that one can find on the internet and do for oneself.

Can it be the confusion between texture (rough clay mixtures) vs. fine particle clays that gives rise to this misnomer? Is what is called 'absorptive' somehow a teapot's ability to stain more easily or trap some particles on the surface of the interior and this is what is called 'absorptive'? Yixing pots which are high fired are not particularly absorptive. These are stonewares which typically have a low absorption rate. You can find charts detailing these studies.

Clay analysis is another thing altogether. This is the mineral structure of which a clay is made from. Many, including myself, have reported taste changes using different clay teapots. Tests one can do for oneself easily bear this out. Iron content is usually a chief factor here. Preference is going to be a subjective decision of which clay serves which tea best. And, my feeling is that the same can be said of which teapot or kyusu is best for which tea. Opinions are going to vary a lot, but absorption is something that can be measured scientifically.

[shigaraki]

Personally, I think both absorption and clay's mineral content are the major players in enhancing the flavor and aftertaste of tea. Taken true ZhuNi for instance, this clay has much less absorptive character than other Yixing clays. But with its mineral composition, Oolong tea is really enhanced in this kind of pot.

On the other hand, highly absorptive clay would show the enhanced effect over brewing session. In theory, if you brew only one tea in such a teapot, you will get much deeper flavor, and longer aftertaste over time. Given it has a "good" composition, the "old" liquor got trapped in the clay and got further enhancement. The next brew will release this liquor out. This is, of course, my own hypothesis. So brewing one tea one pot is the way for me. Of course, I have to limit myself to a very limited number of regular tea to drink. Any other tea would be brewed in my gaiwan. Every unglazed earthenware, stoneware teapot out there should have high degree of absorptivity compared to a good porcelain pot, so to me, over time, the flavor and aftertaste will be altered if mixed type of tea is brewed. Especially when you pay a good sum for a teapot, I think it should deserve to be brewed with your favorite tea.

However, highly absorptive has its own flaw. It certainly reduces the aroma. To me, "wei" and "yun" are more important.

[Tead Off]

Personally, I think both absorption and clay's mineral content are the major players in enhancing the flavor and aftertaste of tea. Taken true ZhuNi for instance, this clay has much less absorptive character than other Yixing clays. But with its mineral composition, Oolong tea is really enhanced in this kind of pot.

On the other hand, highly absorptive clay would show the enhanced effect over brewing session. In theory, if you brew only one tea in such a teapot, you will get much deeper flavor, and longer aftertaste over time. Given it has a "good" composition, the "old" liquor got trapped in the clay and got further enhancement. The next brew will release this liquor out. This is, of course, my own hypothesis. So brewing one tea one pot is the way for me. Of course, I have to limit myself to a very limited number of regular tea to drink. Any other tea would be brewed in my gaiwan. Every unglazed earthenware, stoneware teapot out there should have high degree of absorptivity compared to a good porcelain pot, so to me, over time, the flavor and aftertaste will be altered if mixed type of tea is brewed. Especially when you pay a good sum for a teapot, I think it should deserve to be brewed with your favorite tea.

However, highly absorptive has its own flaw. It certainly reduces the aroma. To me, "wei" and "yun" are more important.

First off, show me an analysis that states zhuni has much less absorbtive character than other yixing clays. Is this something you heard on the grapevine (tea bush ) or is there some scientific test you are referring to? Absorption rates are measurable. Earthenware and stoneware are not both highly absorptive. In fact, stoneware can be quite close to porcelain in absorption %. This is fact. Earthenware is a separate category and the pots we are talking about are not earthenware.

This is why I am putting forth the question whether many people are using wrong terminology due to not really understanding what we're talking about and believing all the old wives tales about this or that. Is the absorption properties of the teapots or the particle size of the clay used that traps/stains/flavors the interior of a pot?

We all do things our own way and that's fine. My objection is the creation of agreement based on theory or idea and talk about it like they were facts. People used to believe the world was flat. So much of what we are told we make into truth without really questioning it to see if it really is so. The tea world is full of this.

[Marco]

We all do things our own way and that's fine. My objection is the creation of agreement based on theory or idea and talk about it like they were facts. People used to believe the world was flat. So much of what we are told we make into truth without really questioning it to see if it really is so. The tea world is full of this.

not only the teaworld
human beeings are like this
As a technician I have learnd to question nearly everything and I have always been encouraged to look for second sources.
Most of the people think this is a strange side of my personality

Given it has a "good" composition, the "old" liquor got trapped in the clay and got further enhancement. The next brew will release this liquor out. This is, of course, my own hypothesis.

Wouldn't this mean that the first brews will have to "spend" this liquor to the pot and therefore taste less intense?
And after time there would be an equilibrium in it.
So where does the improvement in taste come from?

So back to my question.
I will take one pot for my sencha and gyokuro.
One for oolong. - All kinds of? Or should I differ here as well?
Yellow and white tea better in a glaspot?
And pu erh is a sience that is not in my range yet

thanks
Marco

[shigaraki]

First off, show me an analysis that states zhuni has much less absorbtive character than other yixing clays. Is this something you heard on the grapevine (tea bush ) or is there some scientific test you are referring to? Absorption rates are measurable. Earthenware and stoneware are not both highly absorptive. In fact, stoneware can be quite close to porcelain in absorption %. This is fact. Earthenware is a separate category and the pots we are talking about are not earthenware.

This is why I am putting forth the question whether many people are using wrong terminology due to not really understanding what we're talking about and believing all the old wives tales about this or that. Is the absorption properties of the teapots or the particle size of the clay used that traps/stains/flavors the interior of a pot?

We all do things our own way and that's fine. My objection is the creation of agreement based on theory or idea and talk about it like they were facts. People used to believe the world was flat. So much of what we are told we make into truth without really questioning it to see if it really is so. The tea world is full of this.

I tried to make my post as subjective as possible. I hope I didn't come out as anyone with authority in this matter. It is just a piece of my mind.

As for the claim I made on the ZhuNi clay being less absorptive, I neither get that from a tea bush nor from any scientific testing. I just have spent quite an amount of time to read forums posts, and tea-related blog regarding yixing clay. And from what I've read, ZhuNi clay is good at retaining the aroma of tea is due to this factor. To me it sounds reasonable. Is it scientifically proven? No. I, however, would like to see one as well.

Given it has a "good" composition, the "old" liquor got trapped in the clay and got further enhancement. The next brew will release this liquor out. This is, of course, my own hypothesis.

Wouldn't this mean that the first brews will have to "spend" this liquor to the pot and therefore taste less intense?
And after time there would be an equilibrium in it.
So where does the improvement in taste come from?

So back to my question.
I will take one pot for my sencha and gyokuro.
One for oolong. - All kinds of? Or should I differ here as well?
Yellow and white tea better in a glaspot?
And pu erh is a sience that is not in my range yet

thanks
Marco

Marco, this is my own hypothesis. When tea liquor is absorbed into the clay, you just get "less" amount of liquor. The taste of tea is enhanced by the interaction between the clay mineral composition and the tea liquor.

However, the absorbed liquor would have more time interacted with the clay, so it gets enhanced further. Of course, everything will come to an equilibrium down the road, but the liquor is now much better than what you would drink out of a neutral vessel.

On the other hand, if you mixed type of tea, later down the road, the taste and aftertaste would be altered by this mixed interaction.

Do you have to do this? Not at all. However, since you have an inquisitive mind, I would say picking one good pot and experiment with the one tea one pot theory. It doesn't hurt, but the result might be interesting.

After all, tea tasting is very subjective. If you like it, then keep it. There is no single parameter that you should follow to enjoy your tea. In the end, brewing the tea itself to your liking is more important than buying a good pot.

[Tead Off]

Shigaraki,

We all get carried away by our theories. Subjectivity is acceptable and inevitable. But when one starts to talk about absorption qualities and why a tea tastes better in an absorptive pot, I want to know if it is really absorptive. The Hojo-God has special powers and he could have waved his hands over those lovely Shigaraki kyusu to make the teas taste better in them.

Marco,

Gyokuro is often brewed in Hobin which are less than 100ml as Gyo needs lots of leaf and little water, relatively speaking. It can also be a bit gunky like Fukamushi Senchas. Some kyusu will clog up and not allow the tea to drain well. I find that kyusu with the holes near the top of the pot pour better. Hobin pour better, too. So, having a separate pot for Gyo might be a practical decision more than it affecting taste going from a sencha to a gyo, or vice versa.

I wouldn't use the same pot for greens and oolongs. And, I usually separate my oolong pots for greener and roasted varieties. This goes even further with separation of pots according to leaf size. Pellets and long twisted leaves usually go in different shaped pots.

So, in other words, get ready to spend lots of money on your new addiction. It doesn't stop and you will need more and more like every other junkie on here.

[Geekgirl]

It doesn't stop and you will need more and more like every other junkie on here.

Who are you calling junkie, Mr Pot?