Opinions on Fukamashi and Organic Fukamashi

[britt]

If you want to post a topic, just post a topic, don't begin a topic by pointing fingers. I think everyone is here for the open discussion of tea related topics, and not for the drama you are trying to drag into the discussion. [/b][/color]

The drama began long before I arrived. It just so happens I missed most of the last show so I really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

[britt]

To further what I have stated about degrees of fuka steaming. I had yuuki-cha'a YM version, it is definitely less steamed than possibly any other Yutaka Midori I have ever had. Thus larger particles. IMHO.

Thank you, that is what I wanted an opinion on. So the more complete leaf may be due to lighter steaming, not necessarily having anything to do with being organic, not using pesticiedes, etc.

[britt]

And as I have stated many times, I like all steam levels, prefering to have a fuka and an asa open so there is variety.

I just do not like to hear fuka getting a bad (and incorrect) rap by refering to it as compost or whatever.

People are going to like what they like, and their tastes will change. Just like with oolong, there is the less processed green Taiwan oolong, then there is the more processed Oriental Beauty. Is OB wrong because it has been processed more and the leaf is not green? Of course not. It is just a matter of how the tea is made and personal taste.

It is also partly respecting the tastes of others ... I have seen this play out since I have been on TC.

I also like all steam levels, and I personally like fukamashi very much. It was only more recently that I strated to expand into more of the lighter-steamed teas. I had been sent some of these by vendors to try and originally I thought the light-steamed teas were rather bland in comparison. Now I sometimes prefer them after giving them a fair chance. I do try to keep each on hand for the same reasons you mention; variety.

[britt]

Dust is byproduct tea basically ... what is leftover in production and can be redeemed for teabags, etc.

Where as fukamushi is highly designed and carefully created from the bush to the bag.

As with all my opinions/experience, I always say, "drink what mushi you like, like what mushi you drink."

If tea dust is a byproduct that can be used for teabags, etc. then when I have received a 100 gram bag that is loaded with it, it sounds like that could be a packaging issue. In other words, it isn't necessarily bad tea but may have been carelessly packaged and the tea dust resulting from production was not properly separated?

[britt]

I have had the yuuki organic YM and I agree that it was moderately less broken than the O-cha YM. It is also not nearly as tasty, IMO. That is not meant as a general knock against organic teas, just concerning those two.

Honestly, I don't care how broken the fukamushicha is -- if it tastes amazing.

So it seems that how broken the leaf is, is proportional to the unique fukamashi flavor. Less broken, less of the expected flavor. I like both the Yuuki-cha and O-Cha Ym, but there is a noticeable difference in taste, with the Yuuki version tasting somewhere in between a fuka and light steamed sencha. Chip did mention that he tried Yukki fuka and it was less steamed.

[britt]

People are going to like what they like, and their tastes will change. Just like with oolong, there is the less processed green Taiwan oolong, then there is the more processed Oriental Beauty. Is OB wrong because it has been processed more and the leaf is not green? Of course not. It is just a matter of how the tea is made and personal taste.

In some ways, I consider the OB to be less processed. As far as I know, and this was stated by a reputable vendor, true OB can not use pesticides otherwise the bugs could not chew the leaves, which is what gives OB its distinctive qualities. This is not saying it is organic, only that it can't use pesticides.

[Tead Off]

People are going to like what they like, and their tastes will change. Just like with oolong, there is the less processed green Taiwan oolong, then there is the more processed Oriental Beauty. Is OB wrong because it has been processed more and the leaf is not green? Of course not. It is just a matter of how the tea is made and personal taste.

In some ways, I consider the OB to be less processed. As far as I know, and this was stated by a reputable vendor, true OB can not use pesticides otherwise the bugs could not chew the leaves, which is what gives OB its distinctive qualities. This is not saying it is organic, only that it can't use pesticides.

This is quite true, I believe. But comparing Japanese to Taiwan teas is a bit of a stretch. Hand picking and hand rolling is handmade to me. Much easier to find handmade teas in Taiwan. Rare to find handmade Japanese teas. Processing is not necessarily a dirty word. Depends on what 'processing' means.

I didn't find this thread antagonistic in any way.

[Chip]

I have had the yuuki organic YM and I agree that it was moderately less broken than the O-cha YM. It is also not nearly as tasty, IMO. That is not meant as a general knock against organic teas, just concerning those two.

Honestly, I don't care how broken the fukamushicha is -- if it tastes amazing.

So it seems that how broken the leaf is, is proportional to the unique fukamashi flavor. Less broken, less of the expected flavor. I like both the Yuuki-cha and O-Cha Ym, but there is a noticeable difference in taste, with the Yuuki version tasting somewhere in between a fuka and light steamed sencha. Chip did mention that he tried Yukki fuka and it was less steamed.

And less flavorful by a long shot.

This could be due to ...

It being organic
Lighter steamed
Inadaquate/absent final roasting (last stages of processing)

As I said, I tasted this one during shincha, it was actually very un YM-like. I tend to think it was a combination of the above 3 reasons.

[Tead Off]

I have had the yuuki organic YM and I agree that it was moderately less broken than the O-cha YM. It is also not nearly as tasty, IMO. That is not meant as a general knock against organic teas, just concerning those two.

Honestly, I don't care how broken the fukamushicha is -- if it tastes amazing.

So it seems that how broken the leaf is, is proportional to the unique fukamashi flavor. Less broken, less of the expected flavor. I like both the Yuuki-cha and O-Cha Ym, but there is a noticeable difference in taste, with the Yuuki version tasting somewhere in between a fuka and light steamed sencha. Chip did mention that he tried Yukki fuka and it was less steamed.

In 2009, I had Yuuki YM in the Spring and Yuuki YM in the fall. Same tea, but by the fall, the taste had changed radically, and, IMO, not for the better. In the case of this tea, when it was drunk made a huge difference in taste.

Recently, someone gave me a Hibiki-an Fuka Superior. This tea is extremely broken and almost undrinkable for my taste. Beside being a mess in my kyusu, it messes up my taste buds. This is an example of a more broken, non-organic Fuka, that I would call inferior tea and never buy. So, I'm not sure if the statement that more broken fuka is tastier than less broken, or, non organic is tastier than organic. Personally, I don't believe any of it. If tea is grown well and handled well by tea masters, it should produce tasty tea whether organic or not and whether more broken or not.

[Chip]

Recently, someone gave me a Hibiki-an Fuka Superior. This tea is extremely broken and almost undrinkable for my taste.

Just for the record, the Fukamushi Superior is their lowest grade and sells for 14 USD per 100 grams. I would not expect too much from it. Though for someone new to sencha, it is a good stepping stone ... or was last time I tried it 4ish years ago.

If tea is grown well and handled well by tea masters, it should produce tasty tea whether organic or not and whether more broken or not.

Ideally, yes. Theoretically, yes. Reality, possibly to probably. There are no absolutes when it comes to tea given the numerous factors involved, such as the weather which reeked havoc on Japanese tea crops in the 2010 harvest.

[Kevangogh]

If you are into fukamushi, then it might be a good idea to get a teapot that was designed for deep steamed green tea - they make many different models here in Japan. They usually stand taller rather than wide, and have finer mesh that covers mainly the spout. Like this:



While it's possible to brew fukamushi with a ceramic sesame filter or an "obi ami" (belt type screen which wraps 360 degrees around the inside of the kyusu) if you are careful and know exactly what you are doing (hint: pour slowly), some people decide to do so this and end up with little particles stuck to the filter screen, lots of leaf in your cup, etc, and then turn around and say there is a "defect" with the tea.

[David R.]

One quick question : how hard do you shake your kyusu in order to extract the last drops ?

I have seen in Japan a demo with someone shaking his kyusu, using firm downward gestures, as if the last drops were pure gold. Indeed they are said to contain the best flavours. He was not shaking the kyusu like a madman, but just used strong downward moves at the end of the pour, around half a dozen I would say.

Sorry for the off-topic.

[Kevangogh]

Yeah, that's what they do here a lot, I do it too. At the very end, you can get quite a bit more out. Just take the teapot, hold it in one hand, and bring it down real hard and stop right above the cup. Be careful or you'll break something - have done that, lol.

[Chip]

Recently, someone gave me a Hibiki-an Fuka Superior. This tea is extremely broken and almost undrinkable for my taste.

Just for the record, the Fukamushi Superior is their lowest grade and sells for 14 USD per 100 grams. I would not expect too much from it. Though for someone new to sencha, it is a good stepping stone ... or was last time I tried it 4ish years ago.

I think this would be a poor choice for someone new to Sencha. I just looked on their site. They say it's blended with Gyokuro leaves. I've had better supermarket teas.

[Chip]

Recently, someone gave me a Hibiki-an Fuka Superior. This tea is extremely broken and almost undrinkable for my taste.

Just for the record, the Fukamushi Superior is their lowest grade and sells for 14 USD per 100 grams. I would not expect too much from it. Though for someone new to sencha, it is a good stepping stone ... or was last time I tried it 4ish years ago.

I think this would be a poor choice for someone new to Sencha. I just looked on their site. They say it's blended with Gyokuro leaves. I've had better supermarket teas.

Perhaps it is not as good as it used to be. But I found it to be of good quality and taste at the time, and at 14 USD per 100 a newbie could experiment with it. I think it is good to learn with a slightly lower grade ... if you can refine your brewing of a lower grade sencha, you can likely also brew a premium tea better as well.

It also gives a newbie a broader base of tastes.

The fact that it has gyo leaf included should not have any bearing on whether it would be good for a newbie.

But this is still way better than any supermarket tea I have ever seen in the USA. Then again, it is apparently against your policy to agree with anything I say anyway ...

Bottom line though, this is not a good example to use as a basis for discussing organic fuka versus conventional fuka. As I stated in my first response to your post, it is their lowest grade and would not expect too much from it.