Raw Puerh not good for health?

[shah82]

Well, civilized zombies do get their qi from tea instead of brains. Better for the skin...

[MarshalN]

Well, civilized zombies do get their qi from tea instead of brains. Better for the skin...

And cures cancer too while you're at it

[apache]

Well, civilized zombies do get their qi from tea instead of brains. Better for the skin...

And cures cancer too while you're at it

Panacea for anything.

[heatwaves]

None of what we know about sheng puerh's effect on health is actually based on evidence (aside from what evidence traditional chinese medicine requires). We don't really know the levels of pesticide residues for commonly available factory productions, nor do we know the active chemical levels (caffeine, theanine, etc.).

Well stated. It's really all conjecture without unbiased sheng-specific studies. I only see that happening if a major factory funds it... and then, of course, it's not so "unbiased".

[fracol]

Can someone please explain to me what a hot or cold natured person is?

[gingkoseto]

Can someone please explain to me what a hot or cold natured person is?

It's very hard to explain. But if you take observation of yourself, it's not hard to find your own nature.

For example, I think I am a cold nature person, because I feel cold more easily than a lot of other people. Not just feeling cold in winter, but even in summer, when I am warm or even sweating, I don't feel very warm inside out. In winter, I get cold hands, cold feet, cold back more easily than others. In all seasons, I almost never desire ice water. I still over-eat ice-cream sometimes. But sometimes it results in disaster and regret

My husband has the opposites of all above, and I think he is a "hot nature" person.

But then, in Chinese medicine terms, there are conditions of "cold inside and heat on surface" and "heat inside and cold on surface" (these are not very proper translation though). For example, as a cold nature person, I don't feel like drinking a lot of sheng. But sometimes in winter, with the room heated and dry, I may feel "fire" in my nose and throat, and even crave sheng for several days. I believe this is when "cold inside and heat on the surface" happens to me.

Basically I think it's about eating/behaving based on your comfort level, and not sacrificing long term comfort of some organs (stomach, heart, liver, etc.) to impulsive desire of a single organ (for example, taste buds).

Back to the original topic, I don't see any Chinese medicine theory (including those quoted in the original post) says sheng is "unhealthy". It's believed to be "cold" (so is most tea, generally), and then healthy or not depends on who you are and how much of it you take.

[fracol]

Wow I didn't know tea could even be unhealthy for you. I kind of figured tea would be a hot nature since often we drink it hot, but I guess I can see why a young sheng would be cold. I am definitely a cold natured person, so maybe I better stick with well aged raw or ripe.

Thanks

Oh are there any other examples of a hot natured tea, to balance out my natural cold nature?

[gingkoseto]

Wow I didn't know tea could even be unhealthy for you. I kind of figured tea would be a hot nature since often we drink it hot, but I guess I can see why a young sheng would be cold. I am definitely a cold natured person, so maybe I better stick with well aged raw or ripe.

Thanks

Oh are there any other examples of a hot natured tea, to balance out my natural cold nature?

I don't feel confident to give you any health advice I somewhat feel charcoal roasted oolong has a hot nature or balanced nature. But as for which is good for us, the best way is to try things in moderate level and observe ourselves. In many cases, if something is not good for you, probably you never want to eat/drink it to begin with, and don't have to avoid it for healthy/unhealthy claims - although this is not true for everything

The cold nature of tea was first recorded in an ancient Chinese medicine book, but the book was written before oolong was popular

[the_economist]

i think processing plays a part in determining the warming/cooling nature of tea also.

fried/roasted anything is usually considered warming. like gingko, i think im cold-natured. my hands/feet are shockingly cold to most people haha...

i completely understand that this totally sounds like hocus pocus to most people though

[fracol]

I can see how most green/white or lighter tea's would be a cooling tea. And then a darker tea is a better warming tea.

I don't know...seems like an interesting aspect!!!

[tingjunkie]

i try to buy only organic raw pu-erh because i really don't like aged pu-erh: for me 5 years is a lot !

Well if you have any of that gross old stuff lying around, I'll "dispose" of it for you.

[entropyembrace]

Hmmmmm....by your description of cold natured I am definitely a cold natured person. But I enjoy drinking young sheng puerh and suffer no ill effects from doing so.

Can someone please explain to me what a hot or cold natured person is?

It's very hard to explain. But if you take observation of yourself, it's not hard to find your own nature.

For example, I think I am a cold nature person, because I feel cold more easily than a lot of other people. Not just feeling cold in winter, but even in summer, when I am warm or even sweating, I don't feel very warm inside out. In winter, I get cold hands, cold feet, cold back more easily than others. In all seasons, I almost never desire ice water. I still over-eat ice-cream sometimes. But sometimes it results in disaster and regret

My husband has the opposites of all above, and I think he is a "hot nature" person.

But then, in Chinese medicine terms, there are conditions of "cold inside and heat on surface" and "heat inside and cold on surface" (these are not very proper translation though). For example, as a cold nature person, I don't feel like drinking a lot of sheng. But sometimes in winter, with the room heated and dry, I may feel "fire" in my nose and throat, and even crave sheng for several days. I believe this is when "cold inside and heat on the surface" happens to me.

Basically I think it's about eating/behaving based on your comfort level, and not sacrificing long term comfort of some organs (stomach, heart, liver, etc.) to impulsive desire of a single organ (for example, taste buds).

Back to the original topic, I don't see any Chinese medicine theory (including those quoted in the original post) says sheng is "unhealthy". It's believed to be "cold" (so is most tea, generally), and then healthy or not depends on who you are and how much of it you take.

[zhi zheng]

This is an interesting topic, but as others have implied, it's unfortunately far too generalised to be meaningful;

What sheng tea? Where and from what kind of trees does it come from? (If it's bush tea, one might well be right to be concerned about the chemicals in it.)*

To make generalisations of the type: 'Raw Puer tea cannot be drunk until it is N years old' is of little value. What was it to start with? Where and how has it been kept? What does it taste like?

Young raw Puer, from a Chinese medicine perspective would certainly tend to be cooling. As 'ancient texts' imply, this may well be in good part because of it's bitter flavour ("The bitter taste is cooling"), but of course, this quality varies widely in teas from different areas, trees, etc.

To describe the thermal qualities of any given item; greens are cooling, grains are neutral, red meat is warming, etc. is of use, but it's limited as there are many things that can affect these broad inherent thermal properties.

Furthermore, one has also to consider the climate, time of day, time of year as well as the constitution of the individual.

What this does mean however is that there are things (strongly warming/cooling etc.) that people with any given disposition might do well to avoid or take in moderation. Tea is no exception.

But also to describe someone as having a cold/hot nature is rather too simplistic; the 'art' of Chinese medicine is to bring to light the internal 'climate' and the nature/qualities of the various relationships between organs and their energies and the rest of the body/mind complex. There may well be a dominant pattern in any individual, but that will not be the whole picture, so it is well not to be too prescriptive.

Anyone interested in reading more on this might head for Giovanni Maciocia's The Foundations of Chinese Medicine for a serious read, or for a less detailed but very comprehensive explanation, Ted Kaptchuk's The Web That Has No Weaver, or, for a more east/west point of view that is specifically diet related, Paul Pritchard's Healing with Wholefoods which, as I remember has some good detail on the thermal properties of food.

'Ancient texts' are certainly interesting reference material, but one only needs to peruse the 'Nei Jing Su Wen' to see that, amidst all the wisdom, there are many concepts which we may today find irrelevant or even ridiculous. So it is well not to take these references out of context.

As has been noted, the research that has been done on Sheng Puer is scant. Much research does not even distinguish between sheng/shou/young/old. It's also important to look at who is saying what and why. We all have our motives.

There is some research to indicate that Sheng Puer has a good amount of the stuff that is abundant in green tea and is currently thought to be healthful, notably the polyphenols; catechins, gallo-catechins, epigallo-catechins etc.

Shou cha by the way has practically none of these, converted as they are in the wodui process to predominantly gallic acid and an amount of thearubigin. These too have their health benefits, but a well aged Sheng will typically still have a good balance of the catechins as well as an increasing amount of gallic acid due to the ageing process.

I would be very interested to see anything other than hearsay that indicates that raw Puer is injurious to the body and in what way.



*NB: The vast majority of cooked Puer (bush tea) is also going to have these same chemicals in it.

[Marco]

Can someone please explain to me what a hot or cold natured person is?

It's very hard to explain. But if you take observation of yourself, it's not hard to find your own nature.

For example, I think I am a cold nature person, because I feel cold more easily than a lot of other people. Not just feeling cold in winter, but even in summer, when I am warm or even sweating, I don't feel very warm inside out. In winter, I get cold hands, cold feet, cold back more easily than others. In all seasons, I almost never desire ice water. I still over-eat ice-cream sometimes. But sometimes it results in disaster and regret

I think your description about beeing a "cold person" fits 99% of all women.
But that is just a matter of biology.

This is an interesting topic, but as others have implied, it's unfortunately far too generalised to be meaningful

+ 1 to this and I think a lot of your statements to this topic make sense

So we have no real facts to support the hypothesis of the topic.

[gingkoseto]

Can someone please explain to me what a hot or cold natured person is?

It's very hard to explain. But if you take observation of yourself, it's not hard to find your own nature.

For example, I think I am a cold nature person, because I feel cold more easily than a lot of other people. Not just feeling cold in winter, but even in summer, when I am warm or even sweating, I don't feel very warm inside out. In winter, I get cold hands, cold feet, cold back more easily than others. In all seasons, I almost never desire ice water. I still over-eat ice-cream sometimes. But sometimes it results in disaster and regret

I think your description about beeing a "cold person" fits 99% of all women.
But that is just a matter of biology.

Actually by "feel cold more easily than other people", I mean more easily than most of my girlfriends It's all relative. Besides, I am just one example and the description on me is not inclusive about everything of a cold nature person. After all, in this season, everybody feels cold easily

Also I have a girlfriend who feels cold easily but based on other symptoms she is believed to be a hot nature person. It's much more complicated than blood test