Raw Puerh not good for health?

[auhckw]

I was browsing Cloud's website which lead me to Cloud's Tea Collection. While I was going through the Learning Zone, I came across some interesting notes, which I would like to highlight.


I couldn't copy and paste from the flash, so I screen shot it instead.

<snip>









On the contrary, Raw Puerh tea is not meant for substantial consumption in their first 20 years although the taste and aroma of it is really tempting. In ancient Chinese record, Raw Puerh tea is defined to have the nature of "Strong taste and bitterness".

Supplemental Compendium of Materia Medica ("Bencao Gangmu") says, Puerh tea is produced from Puerh County, Yunnan ... mild nature with good flavor ... but with strong taste and bitterness. It helps to relief the drawbacks of eating oily food and meat. However, people with weak body should not drink Puerh. The taste of Puerh is usually bitter and therefore it helps to get rid of sputum and facilitates excretions.”

Ancient record of Kunming City also quotes Li Shenzhen's speech that "Puerh tastes bitter and is classified as cold nature substance which is good to ease the hot nature. It also helps to relief the bad effect of drinking excessive wine so as to keep one's mind clear and to stay awake and not feeling drowsy. However, if a weak person drinks too much Puerh for a long period of time, he will get sick easily."

All in all, we shall understand that Puerh tea has its cold nature which needs time and humidity to disintegrate and transform. That is the reason why drinking aged Puerh vintages are so comfortable and not irritating at all. Note that those ancient Chinese documents always emphasize that weak people should not drink too much Raw Puerh. Therefore, it is the ancient Chinese wisdoms that is executed by those Hong Kong tea vendors in the past - they put the newly made Raw Puerh tea in a wet storage condition to speed up the aging process in order to remove the bitterness as soon as possible.

[gingkoseto]

Whether or not it's good, depends on individual conditions. I personally can't handle more than a little new tea (current year) and tend not to serve friends with new tea. I drink 3-year-old sheng from time to time but not a lot. But then it depends on which region the tea is from, some feels milder overall.

Different people were born with different conditions. It may not be a problem at all for some other people. I somewhat believe it's more or less a problem for most people, so it's a good idea to be careful before one is sure it's not a problem for himself.

But I can't say I agree with all the quoted statements. I am actually very surprised to see "Raw Puerh tea is not meant for substantial consumption in their first 20 years". I wonder if it's a result of simplified summary of thoughts. I've read some articles by Cloud (I think it's the same person) on Chinese tea forums. This 20 years statement doesn't seem consistent with his other articles I've read.

[Dass]

I am surprissed too to read,

"Raw Puerh tea is not meant for substantial consumption in their first 20 years".

For me a raw tea after 8 years is good to drink.But I usually only start to drink a tea after 10 or 13 years or when I feel the taste is good.
For example: The 2004 "Chi Dayi" / 8852 500g is already good to drink.I am referring to the ones kept in Malaysia.The color is dark and has "Chang Siang taste" but I am still keeping it to age further but am drinking 1 piece every once a month to see the changes.

Some tea that was very strong or bitter or smokey when new might have to be kept 20years.But than again a tea kept in malaysia for 1 year is equal to the one kept in China for 3 years (the changes). So storage and weather is important too for the tea to change fast or slow.

[heatwaves]

It's a little known fact that Hobbes of Half-Dipper fame is actually a zombie. He died from drinking daily sheng back in 2006.

If the claim that >20 year sheng is hazardous, I bet that's because it takes that long for all of the pesticide to dissipate. Ummm.... pesticide.

[TomVerlain]

The problem with generalities is they are generally self-referencing.

JK -

If one knows about Chinese Medicine (Which I do not), statements like "Puerh tastes bitter and is classified as cold nature substance which is good to ease the hot nature." make sense. People with different natures use the same substances diferently. If you have a a "hot nature" drinking young Puerh might be good for you, where if you have a cold nature, it might be bad.

There are some young shengs which cause a stomache ache if I drink too much without eating.

That is my nature.

In my opinion, which is valid for me, aged tea is the way to go. Young tea is still too raw. I drink it occaisonally, to give myself perspective, but I could not drink substansial quanities all the time. Others might be the opposite. That is their nature.

[Milhouse]

I can barely make it through a session of young sheng before my body starts to feel bad. Stomach feels like it's full of rocks and I'm left with an overall unpleasant feeling. It gets even worse if i drink it 3 days in a row to the point where i feel like that after the first cup. Worse than being on a coffee binge. All of those teas ranged from 1-10yrs old.

"the taste and aroma of it is really tempting"

Sure i thought the flavor was pleasant on some of those but i think the overall feeling i get from drinking it is equally as important as the taste. If i want something just for taste I'm more likely to reach for a light oolong or shu because they taste good but don't leave me feeling sick. For me its probably more severe than many here since a lot of people love the young stuff. I think everyone has a different threshold so for some 3 days is too much while others can go months or years w/o ever feeling any negative affects. So based on my own experience and what I've read about sheng, i believe it to not be healthy to drink it too frequently. At the same time there's no risk of death that i know of so i don't see any reason for someone to stop drinking after reading clouds statement if its not giving them any negative affects. I just think of statements against sheng as a simple warning label.

[Milhouse]

heatwaves,

It has little to do with pesticides. I'm pretty sure that Sheng being considered unhealthy isn't a new idea that started after the use of pesticides, "ancient Chinese record" . Its the just the nature of the tea. I'm not an expert on TCM but from what I've read about it everything Tomverla has written is true. If the concern was about pesticides than people like cloud would have mentioned that in his article. Pu-erh and TCM go hand in hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditiona ... e_medicine

[Marco]

I'd like to add two things.

First almost everything has good and bad effects. So I think there are a lot of people in a bad physical condition that perhaps not only should avoid young Sheng but also other kinds of tea. Perhaps caffeine or other ingredients are bad for them.

Second talking about ancient records and what is written there. What once has been true nowadays isn't anymore. I am sure processing and other things have changed a lot.
I think maybe in ancient times there has not been only one young Puerh that was nice to drink. But nowadays there are young Puerhs that are not harsh or unpleasant to drink without ageing.
So I think what once might have been true can really be different today.

my2cent
Marco

[Milhouse]

"ancient records" was used as a statement against assuming its just pesticides that makes a young sheng carry negative traits since they didn't use them way back when. I have a feeling you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. If you read about TCM you'll have more of an understanding as to why i made that statement about pesticides not being the reason for negative effects on people.

[chrl42]

I thought it's not only Puerh or tea, but green plants with chlorophyll that are said to be equipped with cooling effect in TCM, as opposed as something like potato warms your body.

A concept of 'storing' wasn't practiced broadly before 50's, when it was given to Hong Kongers, was it? Otherwise they wouldn't have given em out so cheap to Taiwan.

I wonder if 'ancent record' talks so much about it, why do ethnics in Yunnan don't do as books told? Those tribute Puerhs sent to Beijing, were mostly early-spring teas with white tips, ready-to-drink ones without description of storage? Beengs were made for the convenience of delivery (as I'm told), plus there are puerhs made with small-leaf-variety (tea leaf used for green tea) too in Yunnan....I'm just sayin'..

[Marco]

"ancient records" was used as a statement against assuming its just pesticides that makes a young sheng carry negative traits since they didn't use them way back when. I have a feeling you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. If you read about TCM you'll have more of an understanding as to why i made that statement about pesticides not being the reason for negative effects on people.

Sorry Milhouse you misunderstood me. I was reffering to the original post. Ancient records are mentioned there already.

I thought it's not only Puerh or tea, but green plants with chlorophyll that are said to be equipped with cooling effect in TCM, as opposed as something like potato warms your body.

A concept of 'storing' wasn't practiced broadly before 50's, when it was given to Hong Kongers, was it? Otherwise they wouldn't have given em out so cheap to Taiwan.

I wonder if 'ancent record' talks so much about it, why do ethnics in Yunnan don't do as books told? Those tribute Puerhs sent to Beijing, were mostly early-spring teas with white tips, ready-to-drink ones without description of storage? Beengs were made for the convenience of delivery (as I'm told), plus there are puerhs made with small-leaf-variety (tea leaf used for green tea) too in Yunnan....I'm just sayin'..

+1 to all your statements
From my little wisdom I'd say the same thing.
Beengs have been invented for transportation only and not to store tea for years. People never thought of storing tea for a long time. The concept of storing has been a sideeffect of the long transportation times - a change in the tea was recognized.
The same thing that brought us the idea of improving wine in little oak barrels (barrique).

[heatwaves]

heatwaves,

It has little to do with pesticides. I'm pretty sure that Sheng being considered unhealthy isn't a new idea that started after the use of pesticides, "ancient Chinese record" . Its the just the nature of the tea. I'm not an expert on TCM but from what I've read about it everything Tomverla has written is true. If the concern was about pesticides than people like cloud would have mentioned that in his article. Pu-erh and TCM go hand in hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditiona ... e_medicine

I was just teasing about the pesticides. I think the "fact" that young sheng being "unhealthful" has largely been disproven. I don't doubt that there are some people who it may not agree with (i.e. upset stomaches, headaches, dizzyness, etc), but I wouldn't be surprised if the same percentage of people have similar effects to coffee. There are now a lot of Westerners who drink young sheng puerh daily (just check out the forum at Badger & Blade for a few dozen of them) and suffer no ill effects.

I'd guess that I enjoy young sheng about 4-5 times a week (on a completely empty stomach, I might add) and it seems to agree with me. <drops dead while typing>

[fdrx]

please tell me that raw pu-erh is actually good for health
i try to buy only organic raw pu-erh because i really don't like aged pu-erh(*): for me 5 years is a lot ! i know it's bad ...but i like recent pu-erh so much, even 2010 is ok for me !!

(*)EDIT: i thought wet storage was the normal result of aged pu but now i understand the interest of a good dry storage... and i like shu too! so i changed my mind about 2010 pu and my stomach too !!!

[the_skua]

None of what we know about sheng puerh's effect on health is actually based on evidence (aside from what evidence traditional chinese medicine requires). We don't really know the levels of pesticide residues for commonly available factory productions, nor do we know the active chemical levels (caffeine, theanine, etc.).

[apache]

It's a little known fact that Hobbes of Half-Dipper fame is actually a zombie. He died from drinking daily sheng back in 2006.

Arrrggghhh! I'd been drinking sheng with a zombie!