Why do people believe Stephane?

[MarshalN]

Sal: I respect what you have said and I agree that there are individual things that he sells that might be of a decent quality. I am not questioning everything.

I do, however, know for a fact that he has passed off half-cooked tea as raw tea. He has passed off non-Yiwu tea as Yiwu. He has passed off non-zhuni pots as zhuni, etc

All these mean a few things to me

1) This is misleading the consumer -- they think what they're getting is a real aged raw/Yiwu/zhuni, when it's not.

2) The rather inflated prices he sells these things at mean that some people have now come to think that that's how much these things should cost (given the nature of them). Not a healthy thing in my mind, and also a reason why people like Britt will think everything else must be fake. I also know some people who genuinely thought he's selling it without taking any profit... call them naive, but they exist.

3) What Brandon has just said -- bad information being passed around as if it's the gospel. Always a bad thing in my book.

[hop_goblin]

Hey, I have never trusted him. I just can't trust a person that you have to "email" for a price. No transparency, no sale.

[chamekke]

Calling himself Teamaster and constantly alluding to TeaParker, a guy with no name, rubbed me the wrong way from first click.

I have a more general question about the "tea master/teamaster" title that perhaps someone here can answer.

In Chinese tea parlance, what determines when someone calls themselves (or is called by others) a "tea master"? I've heard this term several times in reference to practitioners to gong fu. In fact, there are a couple of staff at a local tea establishment who practice gong fu, and who refer to themselves in this way. It startled me when I first heard heard people doing this, since the term is comparatively rarely used in Japanese tea ceremony parlance. (My tea sensei has studied for over 40 years and would never call herself a "tea master"; in general, the term is reserved for the heads of the tea schools or o-iemoto, and perhaps a small number of extremely senior tea teachers.) But it seems that the expression is used a bit more freely in other contexts.

Not criticizing, just trying to understand. Any comments are welcome!

[MarshalN]

There are no rules -- which means anybody who wants to can call him/herself teamaster. In other words, it doesn't mean a thing.

As a general rule of thumb though, true tea masters generally don't call themselves that. Just ask Zhou Yu or others who are quite well respected.

[ABx]

I actually agree with both Marshall and Sal.

I think that most of us here think of him as another vendor and blogger, and take it all with a grain of salt. I like the information he offers about brewing, tea on a general scale gaoshan, baozhong, yancha, puerh, etc.) and so on, but I take everything he blogs about as just another opinion - as I do with anyone on anything regarding tea. When it comes to anything about specific teas then doubly so; even Guang admits that he's been fooled on occasion.

I think that when most people here (at least in ITD) quote him it carries the implicit disclaimer that it's just one person's opinion and/or experience. I think that when most people here refer to him, or any blogger, it's usually to present another side (or corroborating experiencing/opinion) to an issue and not to prove a "fact." One of the most recent times that I referred to him was when someone (I think Andy) was talking about ideal water parameters (hardness, etc) and tea. I suggested that it's probably about the individual tea, and mentioned that Stephane posted that the best water is the water that the tea plant grew from. I mentioned this to emphasize the likelihood that different teas may indeed turn out best with different water, rather than to suggest that "Stephane said it so it must be true."

What does pique me, and perhaps this is Marshall's gripe, is when people refer to him, or any one person, as if he were The Authority on tea, whether explicitly or implicitly. Especially so when talking about something that he (or the person being referenced) sells - like Britt did with the teapots. He obviously knows a lot about tea, perhaps more than I will learn for quite some time, but is also obviously not an "expert" by any means (no real expert would deem themselves as such, for starters). When it comes down to it there's relatively few solid facts when it comes to tea, and it seems like any time you can pin down something as true then a contradiction immediately follows. There are just too many factors that can never be fully accounted for.

In Chinese tea parlance, what determines when someone calls themselves (or is called by others) a "tea master"?

I haven't really heard any definitions, but I've always understood a "tea master" to be someone that has studied tea for a very long time and works (or has worked) in the industry differentiating between teas (eg, quality assurance type of thing). Farms have their "tea master" to make sure that the tea comes out exactly as he or she wants it, big vendors may have them to find the teas with the exact qualities that they want, and so on. It would be someone experienced enough to pick out the finest details and knows about the effects of small things involved in brewing and such. If the person doesn't actually work in the industry then perhaps they work in association with the industry, having the knowledge and experience to be a reputable source by those in the industry.

I could be completely wrong, or am missing something, but that's my perception of what a "tea master" is.

[Chip]

Thanks for all the above information. I have probably spent less than an hour on his blog and have no reason to change this practice. But he does have really good Baozhong, imho.

I have little time to read a "vendor's" blog when I perceive the blog is solely intended to sell his/her product. I would much rather read his info on an actual site with prices and product descriptions. At least then I know the intent and pricing for certain.

I have resisted the urge to dive head first into pu-erh for reasons stated by Marshaln, etc. I just know way too little about it to try and navigate the murky pu waters, further muddied by a percentage of unscrupulous sellers. It is a shame because I am sure I am far from alone.

[Proinsias]

Of course buying from Stéphane is really me just waiting it out for the first price list post on you own blog.

I might sell the occasional teaware that I have sitting around, but you'll never see a price list

After reading of your tea adventures I wouldn't feel right paying the quoted price and not trying to barter you down a little.

I do, however, know for a fact that he has passed off half-cooked tea as raw tea.

Do you happen to know which tea? I've written on my blog a while back that the 1990 Menghai area brick tasted a little like cooked pu and I've had my suspicions that it wasn't entirely raw, or wasn't stored in the sahara, but my experience of aged sheng is very minimal.

On the teamaster matter, does teaparker sell himself as a teamaster or is it Stéphane that ascribes that to him?

I have to say his devotion to the aesthetic side of tea drinking has increased my own attention to that side of things very minutely but has nevertheless made an impact.

[MarshalN]

Do you happen to know which tea? I've written on my blog a while back that the 1990 Menghai area brick tasted a little like cooked pu and I've had my suspicions that it wasn't entirely raw, or wasn't stored in the sahara, but my experience of aged sheng is very minimal.

On the teamaster matter, does teaparker sell himself as a teamaster or is it Stéphane that ascribes that to him?

I have to say his devotion to the aesthetic side of tea drinking has increased my own attention to that side of things very minutely but has nevertheless made an impact.

On the question of which tea -- I have in mind the melon that he started selling maybe a year ago. That thing is definitely cooked. I wouldn't rule out other things though, since if he does it for one, there's no reason why it would be the only one.

I think Teaparker treats himself like one -- and charges you the privilege of taking lessons from him (in addition of selling you expensive tea/teaware, some of which I think Stephane resells on his blog).

[Proinsias]

oh dear, I was in a teashop in London and the holiest of holies was a melon of the finest sheng pu-erh from Stéphane - I was allowed to smell it as I had some knowledge of tea, most people only got to hear the story apparently.

[Space Samurai]

It's about trust. The people I buy my tea from are like the guys who do my tatoos, or my piercing; my dentist. I keep coming back to them because I can trust them to take care of me.

Something like this brings that trust into question. I no longer trust Rishi. I'll still buy some things from them, and I certainly reccomend their tea pots, but I take everything they say with a grain of salt and often spend my money elsewhere.

As a blogger I think my word is the most important thing. Of course I expect people to take what I say as opinion and not fact, but I hope they think I'm being honest.

And I'm with Chip, my interest in puerh is not great enough for me to spend any serious tea dollars in an area with such hight "tuition" costs.

[Chip]

After singing praises of his Wenshan a few posts up, I just today tried a second batch of the 2 year old tree version. I was disappointed, completely different from the first batch I had. And simply nothing exceptional about it.

Gotta love when that happens.

[Geekgirl]

After singing praises of his Wenshan a few posts up, I just today tried a second batch of the 2 year old tree version. I was disappointed, completely different from the first batch I had. And simply nothing exceptional about it.

Gotta love when that happens.

Ha! I'm not sure of the relevance, because it could be you inadvertently changed the brewing parameters, not the fault of the tea...

I've had a couple of fantastic sessions with the NCTG Iron Goddess "King," but yesterday it fell completely flat. Pretty sure it's something I did, since I know the leaves can deliver a fabulous session, thus I believe it is an excellent tea, and not a figment of my imagination.

relevance? beats me.

[scruffmcgruff]

relevance? beats me.

Don't forget this is TeaChat. We don't need relevance.

[Geekgirl]

Ha! I saw that on the tiny chat. It's great!

"They talk by flapping their meat at each other!"

LMAO!!!

[hop_goblin]

Ha! I saw that on the tiny chat. It's great!

"They talk by flapping their meat at each other!"

LMAO!!!