I have a genuine questions for you folks who buy from him and think he's reputable/nice/good... why do you believe him when the evidence is that he's a crook? I don't want to stir up too much controversy on the open forum, but figured here I can talk more freely.
Witness the latest example, shown me by an investigative friend
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:rbAH ... clnk&cd=16
Search for 8892 from the above link, a google cached page.... and then search for it below
http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html
You will find that he removed references to 8892 in his current blog from the August 15th entry. Why? He's now selling 8892s, as per his latest post. Apparently, it's not important that it was a fake tea.
And you still think he's a good guy?
Sep 15th, '08, 00:26
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Space Samurai
In his lastest blog entry:
Mais comme de nombreux puerhs anciens commerciaux, cette galette exagère un peu sur son âge: elle n'est pas de 1988, mais a quelques années de moins (impossible de le dire quand avec exactitude).
Au final, je suis positivement surpris par ce puerh. (J'avais eu l'occasion de le goûter il y a quelques années sans le trouver si bon). Je rajoute donc cette galette à ma sélection. Elle sera notamment disponible en taille d'échantillon (20 grammes) afin de vous donner l'occasion de découvrir un exemplaire réussi de puerh mûri.
In short he writes: this tea is not from 1988.
I am surprised in a good way by this puerh.
I tasted it a few years ago not finding it so good.
So if you buy it today you know what you buy (not mentioning you can buy a sample as for all his puerh I think).
Mais comme de nombreux puerhs anciens commerciaux, cette galette exagère un peu sur son âge: elle n'est pas de 1988, mais a quelques années de moins (impossible de le dire quand avec exactitude).
Au final, je suis positivement surpris par ce puerh. (J'avais eu l'occasion de le goûter il y a quelques années sans le trouver si bon). Je rajoute donc cette galette à ma sélection. Elle sera notamment disponible en taille d'échantillon (20 grammes) afin de vous donner l'occasion de découvrir un exemplaire réussi de puerh mûri.
In short he writes: this tea is not from 1988.
I am surprised in a good way by this puerh.
I tasted it a few years ago not finding it so good.
So if you buy it today you know what you buy (not mentioning you can buy a sample as for all his puerh I think).
Yes, I realize that's what he said... he also said some nonsense about the reason why it has 8892 on the wrapper.
But at the same time, the fact that he took the trouble to go back to his 3 years old post to delete his negative comment about the tea he is now selling.... is a telling sign.
I don't think anybody would've found it anyway, except people who have a lot of time (which my friend surely did...). I find the man to be quite dishonest in the way he presents his tea -- some of which are obviously of questionable provenance. Like his whole "this is not really from Yiwu" Yiwu cake...
But at the same time, the fact that he took the trouble to go back to his 3 years old post to delete his negative comment about the tea he is now selling.... is a telling sign.
I don't think anybody would've found it anyway, except people who have a lot of time (which my friend surely did...). I find the man to be quite dishonest in the way he presents his tea -- some of which are obviously of questionable provenance. Like his whole "this is not really from Yiwu" Yiwu cake...
Agreed on the taste part, Olivierco
But when it's false information.... then information is no good at all. It is misleading at best, and lying at worst
Took me a little while, but google is good at finding things
http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2006/10/ ... uvage.html
You'll see he says the 2003 cake is from Jiangcheng, which is not at all the same as Yiwu, but for a guy careful enough to delete a comment made in a 3 years old post, he never updated his tea list to call the 2003 cake a Jiangcheng, instead preserving the "Yiwu" name -- perhaps because Yiwu teas are worth about 10x more than Jiangcheng teas?
But when it's false information.... then information is no good at all. It is misleading at best, and lying at worst
Took me a little while, but google is good at finding things
http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2006/10/ ... uvage.html
You'll see he says the 2003 cake is from Jiangcheng, which is not at all the same as Yiwu, but for a guy careful enough to delete a comment made in a 3 years old post, he never updated his tea list to call the 2003 cake a Jiangcheng, instead preserving the "Yiwu" name -- perhaps because Yiwu teas are worth about 10x more than Jiangcheng teas?
Sep 15th, '08, 02:18
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Location: Gainesville, Florida
I know Stéphane really gets on your nerves, MarshalN, but I think most of us know that he is a vendor and most of us take any vendor statement with a grain of salt. Perhaps what really gets under your skin is that his storefront appears at first glance to be a non-commercial blog, but then it turns out he is selling stuff. I think I read his blog for a few weeks before realizing that you could buy stuff.
I hadn't ordered anything from him for a couple of years until recently when I placed a large order due to tea and teapot recommendations from ABx and Tenuki. I am very happy with what I ordered, but I didn't order based on Stéphane's recommendations ... I ordered based on respected TeaChat friends' experience, the same logic I apply to orders from Scott or Daniel or Gordon or Guang or Jim or Sebastien or any other vendor. I know that their interests and mine do not always correspond.
He does lurk in TeaChat quite regularly, by the way.
The issues with Stéphane have never been as dramatic as the blow-ups that Jim at Puerhshop got involved in last year, so I guess I just find it hard to get upset about Stéphane's conveniently improved opinion.
Maybe it is our national character. I had an uncle who sold Ford cars and was adamant in his insistence that Fords were the best car available. Later, his company switched to selling Chryslers, and his allegiance followed. Finally, his dealership dropped the Chrysler line and distributed GM products. As you can imagine, he became an ardent champion of GM cars. No one felt he was dishonest, but no one especially believed him either. Like most Americans, he believed what made it possible for him to survive. Truth was not an issue with him. There was only one dealership in that little town, so people bought whatever he was selling anyway.
I really feel that there is enough room in the world for Stéphane's style of selling as well as all the others, even Uncle Harry's. I just hate to see it upset you so much. Maybe it's because you have always taken such pains to be brutally honest about everything. I think most readers eventually figure out the difference between expertise and BS.
I hadn't ordered anything from him for a couple of years until recently when I placed a large order due to tea and teapot recommendations from ABx and Tenuki. I am very happy with what I ordered, but I didn't order based on Stéphane's recommendations ... I ordered based on respected TeaChat friends' experience, the same logic I apply to orders from Scott or Daniel or Gordon or Guang or Jim or Sebastien or any other vendor. I know that their interests and mine do not always correspond.
He does lurk in TeaChat quite regularly, by the way.
The issues with Stéphane have never been as dramatic as the blow-ups that Jim at Puerhshop got involved in last year, so I guess I just find it hard to get upset about Stéphane's conveniently improved opinion.
Maybe it is our national character. I had an uncle who sold Ford cars and was adamant in his insistence that Fords were the best car available. Later, his company switched to selling Chryslers, and his allegiance followed. Finally, his dealership dropped the Chrysler line and distributed GM products. As you can imagine, he became an ardent champion of GM cars. No one felt he was dishonest, but no one especially believed him either. Like most Americans, he believed what made it possible for him to survive. Truth was not an issue with him. There was only one dealership in that little town, so people bought whatever he was selling anyway.
I really feel that there is enough room in the world for Stéphane's style of selling as well as all the others, even Uncle Harry's. I just hate to see it upset you so much. Maybe it's because you have always taken such pains to be brutally honest about everything. I think most readers eventually figure out the difference between expertise and BS.
Sep 15th, '08, 04:24
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Proinsias
It's a good job this is in the ITD. Poor Britt may be binning a lot of teaware from an unscrupulous seller from fear of painful death due to poisoning otherwise.
edit: To answer your question Marshal, I don't 100% trust Stéphane but I have bought tea and stuff from him and would definitely consider purchasing something in the future. It doesn't really surprise me that he's altered the old post, if I'm planning on buying tea I tend to google the name first and have a scan of relevant sites.
Of course buying from Stéphane is really me just waiting it out for the first price list post on you own blog.
edit: To answer your question Marshal, I don't 100% trust Stéphane but I have bought tea and stuff from him and would definitely consider purchasing something in the future. It doesn't really surprise me that he's altered the old post, if I'm planning on buying tea I tend to google the name first and have a scan of relevant sites.
Of course buying from Stéphane is really me just waiting it out for the first price list post on you own blog.
I didn't read the whole thread yet, or the posts. I quite often ridiculed Stephane's blog here for being heavy on arrangement of your gong fu set (this is ok by me in moderation, this guy has lost it..) and light on real tea knowledge. What does pass as archaic knowledge is pretty hocus-pocus, but is oft repeated here on Teachat. Calling himself Teamaster and constantly alluding to TeaParker, a guy with no name, rubbed me the wrong way from first click.
After many good reviews of his sterling reputation, tea knowledge, and product, I have recently placed my first order with Stephane. 3 aged puerh samples and some spring gao shan. I imagine this will be pretty good, considering what friends tell me. I will add my impressions here in a few weeks.
Throwing in my 2 cents without reading For The Win.
Edit: I've now read completely - this doesn't really blow the doors of the shop, as you can see from my untainted view above, I have always found his blog to be mostly BS. It bothers me when people quote things from here as gospel from the great TeaParker, whoever the hell that is. I find it hard to believe that Stephane studied under some kind of world renowned Teamaster, and didn't know jack about puerh (see below). As Sal says, I only decided to purchase based on strong recommendations from TC pals.
From 2006 post (linked from storefront), has been bothering me for a long time.
"It wasn't the first time that my merchant told me that cooked puer also need to 'age', so I asked Teaparker about it. He told me that cooked puer's purpose is to make puer that be drunk quickly (as opposed to raw puer that ages slowly). The 'problem' is that nowadays the factories use more water than before for this process. This increases humidity and mold in young cooked puer. That's why it's best to wait 4/5 years. Another trick from my vendor is to wash the leaves with tea a first time and even a second time. This pu er can last many infusions anyway!"
In 2006 I thought cooked puerh was pretty nasty too, but I wasn't claiming to be a Tea Master running all over Asia without a clue.
After many good reviews of his sterling reputation, tea knowledge, and product, I have recently placed my first order with Stephane. 3 aged puerh samples and some spring gao shan. I imagine this will be pretty good, considering what friends tell me. I will add my impressions here in a few weeks.
Throwing in my 2 cents without reading For The Win.
Edit: I've now read completely - this doesn't really blow the doors of the shop, as you can see from my untainted view above, I have always found his blog to be mostly BS. It bothers me when people quote things from here as gospel from the great TeaParker, whoever the hell that is. I find it hard to believe that Stephane studied under some kind of world renowned Teamaster, and didn't know jack about puerh (see below). As Sal says, I only decided to purchase based on strong recommendations from TC pals.
From 2006 post (linked from storefront), has been bothering me for a long time.
"It wasn't the first time that my merchant told me that cooked puer also need to 'age', so I asked Teaparker about it. He told me that cooked puer's purpose is to make puer that be drunk quickly (as opposed to raw puer that ages slowly). The 'problem' is that nowadays the factories use more water than before for this process. This increases humidity and mold in young cooked puer. That's why it's best to wait 4/5 years. Another trick from my vendor is to wash the leaves with tea a first time and even a second time. This pu er can last many infusions anyway!"
In 2006 I thought cooked puerh was pretty nasty too, but I wasn't claiming to be a Tea Master running all over Asia without a clue.