Green tea with Kyusu is not working for me

[Tead Off]

But, what is more interesting to me is even with the information that is out there regarding clay and its effect on tea, there are those who completely disregard it, dismiss it, in favor of that which is only pretty or cheaper.

What is even more interesting to me is that I haven't found so far any convincing information about clay effect on matcha although tea ceremony is an ancient and very documented tradition.

But matcha is not a tea that is brewed like sencha or gyokuro. You are drinking the whole leaf, not extracting the flavor and aroma from it so your choice of chawan is based on other factors (aesthetics).

[Tead Off]

I know this may not be the best place to ask my question as it regards Sado Mumyoi Yaki. Tead Off has experienced tea in one of the Sado Mumyoi pots from Hojo, and I am assuming the tea pot was made by Watanabe Tozo.

Hojo also lists kyusu made by Shimizu Ken using a different source of clay from Sado mountain. I was wondering if anyone has any comments or experience with these kyusu - they are priced a little bit less than those by Watanabe Tozo. Thanks!

Carl, I don't see any other pots from Sado on Hojo's website other than Tozo's. Where did you see Shimizu Ken's pots?

[olivierco]

But matcha is not a tea that is brewed like sencha or gyokuro.

The tea is however in contact with the chawan (perhaps more because of the whisking, the large surface of the chawan and all the time which is needed when a koicha bowl is given to every participant). If the reduced iron explanation works for sencha with short steep times for second infusion, I don't see why it wouldn't work with matcha and how Japanese teamasters could have overlooked this effect.

[Tead Off]

But matcha is not a tea that is brewed like sencha or gyokuro.

The tea is however in contact with the chawan (perhaps more because of the whisking, the large surface of the chawan and all the time which is needed when a koicha bowl is given to every participant). If the reduced iron explanation works for sencha with short steep times for second infusion, I don't see why it wouldn't work with matcha and how Japanese teamasters could have overlooked this effect.

I see your point however most chawan are glazed. From my tasting point of view, matcha may have subtleties to it but is not a subtle tea. I'm not sure if it is comparable. It is not an extract as sencha is. Have you noticed any difference in the bowls that you use to prepare matcha?

[Intuit]

Most artisan chawan aren't glazed. I was perusing a Japanese pottery gallery site last night that provided a bit of insight into various clays.

Japanese potters 'taste' their clays as part of 'learning' a clay, and associating firing/glazing and surface texture/hardness-density qualities qualities.

Apparently, cha-jins, experienced tea buffs who avidly collect high quality Japanese tea-art claim to be able to detect the flavor of the clays in their tea, despite the high-fired, highly refractory surface (eg., exceptionally strong and chemically and physically inert).

I stand corrected. Unglazed (that is, without an sealing layer applied that is hardened and chemically bonded to the underlying clay) kyusu may augment or temper infusions.

[olivierco]

It is not an extract as sencha is.

Matcha isn't dissolved but in suspension so at least some of it is extracted.

I see your point however most chawan are glazed.
Have you noticed any difference in the bowls that you use to prepare matcha?

All the chawan I own are glazed.
Bizen yaki chawans aren't (all?) glazed but I don't like too much this style. As for Banko chawans I don't remember having seen one.

[Tead Off]

It is not an extract as sencha is.

Matcha isn't dissolved but in suspension so at least some of it is extracted.

I see your point however most chawan are glazed.
Have you noticed any difference in the bowls that you use to prepare matcha?

All the chawan I own are glazed.
Bizen yaki chawans aren't (all?) glazed but I don't like too much this style. As for Banko chawans I don't remember having seen one.

Yes, suspension.
I also haven't seen a banko chawan but this would be too plain for my taste unless it had Yohen as the bizen often do. I love bizenyaki. I have one kyusu with kiln effects on the exterior and unglazed interior. I have several guinomi that I adore. I love the organic quality and different looks that the woodfire gives them.

[David R.]

I know this may not be the best place to ask my question as it regards Sado Mumyoi Yaki. Tead Off has experienced tea in one of the Sado Mumyoi pots from Hojo, and I am assuming the tea pot was made by Watanabe Tozo.

Hojo also lists kyusu made by Shimizu Ken using a different source of clay from Sado mountain. I was wondering if anyone has any comments or experience with these kyusu - they are priced a little bit less than those by Watanabe Tozo. Thanks!

Carl, I don't see any other pots from Sado on Hojo's website other than Tozo's. Where did you see Shimizu Ken's pots?

Hi !

I do own a Shimizu Ken teapot. Unfortunatly for you, I am fairly a beginner and anything I'd say would not be very relevant compared to someone with more (/a little) experience. This is my first "real" teapot and I haven't yet compared it to anything alike, and I don't know anyone who does. Finally, as I am not a native english speaker, I am afraid that my humble impressions would not translate well... Let just that I find it very beautiful with its raw lines and it makes me very happy

But here is what I can do for you : this is the link to Akira Hojo Teaware : http://hojotea.com/item_e/available.htm

Shimizu Ken's teapots are at the the bottom of the page and Akira Hojo says this :

"I personally confirmed that the quality of Shimizu Ken's clay is very good, yet it is certainly different from Watanabe Tozo's clay. It is beyond superiority. I would say both clay has their own identity."

That's all I can do for you I'm afraid.

Anyway, these products seem fairly new in Hojo's lineup and on the net. I was one of the first to be able to buy one I think, cause Akira and I were exchanging mails regarding my first order there when he received his firsts Shimizu Ken teapots (or maybe he was out of stock before I don't really know in fact.) Even in France, where teablogs are very active, I seem to be the only one known to own a Shimizu Ken, which is not the case with Watanabe Tozo teapots : everyone seems to have one but me (and they seem to love it. ^^) So it is not easy to find a "review" of these teapots. But buy me a Tozo and I will tell you the difference asap ! (sorry, french humour...)

Hope it helps a little.

++

[Tead Off]

David,

thanks for the link. I had already seen it since I last posted.

I didn't know that Tozo was so popular in France. Maybe with the stronger Euro, the prices are tolerable. With the dollar and Thai Baht, the Yen is too strong now making it even more difficult.

Hope you enjoy your pot. But, I suggest to you that you try to purchase an older Yixing zhuni pot and compare the 2 just to learn and have another good teapot for a different tea. I think you will find 1 teapot will not be enough!

[David R.]

Thanks Tead off for the advice. I do have a few Yixin teapots (2 for pu-er and 1 for wulong.) But they are basic ones, around 40€ each max, nothing as fancy as the Shimizu Ken.

As for the popularity of Watanabe Tozo teapots in France, I think that it is simpler actually. One teablogger began to buy one, compared it with his older kyusu, I imagine something like a nice Tokoname teapot but using questionable clay, and discovered nirvana. He said so in his blog and another teablogger bought one, this time for wulong. He said that he was very pleased too and people who could afford it followed. Careful, this is not a critic from my part. I think this kind of feedback is great. I would have a Tozo if it wasn't for the price. I am sure it is the best thing I could easily get with being sure of the quality, as for now quite a few people have tried and confirmed its quality (for japanese green tea mainly.)

Finally, keep in mind that both tea and japanese culture are very popular in France. We are known to be the #1 consumers of japanese goods worldwide, after them of course.

++

[Tead Off]

I have been to Hojo's temple and drank from a Tozo. I wasn't sold, especially for the price. For Japanese greens, the banko ware is superb. This would be my first choice for sencha and gyokuro. Even Puerh do well in these.

[tenuki]

Brewing good quality sencha in it over time sounds like a better idea to me.

+1

[David R.]

I have been to Hojo's temple and drank from a Tozo. I wasn't sold, especially for the price. For Japanese greens, the banko ware is superb. This would be my first choice for sencha and gyokuro. Even Puerh do well in these.

There were a lot of things writen about that, the difference between red and purple clay with green tea I mean. Some use one or the other depending of the tea, its quality or the steaming process.

At the end, I guess that it is best to say that everyone's taste is different. The difficulty is to find the combination that works for you.

Thanks for your insight.

++

[Tead Off]

I have been to Hojo's temple and drank from a Tozo. I wasn't sold, especially for the price. For Japanese greens, the banko ware is superb. This would be my first choice for sencha and gyokuro. Even Puerh do well in these.

There were a lot of things writen about that, the difference between red and purple clay with green tea I mean. Some use one or the other depending of the tea, its quality or the steaming process.

At the end, I guess that it is best to say that everyone's taste is different. The difficulty is to find the combination that works for you.

Thanks for your insight.

++

Yes, ultimately, you have to make your own decisions. However, if you worship at the Hojo-God's temple, he will tell you Banko is best for greens. I mention it because you also value his opinion.

[chamekke]

But, what is more interesting to me is even with the information that is out there regarding clay and its effect on tea, there are those who completely disregard it, dismiss it, in favor of that which is only pretty or cheaper.

What is even more interesting to me is that I haven't found so far any convincing information about clay effect on matcha although tea ceremony is an ancient and very documented tradition.

This is probably because matcha isn't steeped; it's whisked and consumed immediately. So there isn't the concern with seasoning that you find in vessels that are used for steeping tea leaves. My guess is that a chawan whose composition noticeably affects the taste of matcha is by definition a "bad" chawan.