Green tea with Kyusu is not working for me

[pro-bono]

Well, I just bought a Kyusu the other day, and it's not working for me at all -- perhaps I'm doing something wrong?

Prior to buying the Kyusu I was using one of those teapots with a cylindrical infuser that hangs from the lid down into the pot. With this teapot I would steep my Sencha for around 1:30 minutes and it would turn out quite strong and have a thick green appearance (just how I like it).

Now since buying the kyusu, the tea has taken far too long to infuse and it still turns out weak. For example if I steep the Sencha for 5 minutes it will turn out alot more watery than what I'm used too; nowhere near the same thickness and taste I'm used to at all! Although the second steep does turn out a slightly better than the first!

I'm pretty sure I'm doing everything right. I simply put a heaped teaspoon of Sencha into the Kyusu and pour 80 C (176 F) water into it and then steep it -- the same way a made it with my old pot (with the cylindrical infuser).

The Kyusu itself is a standard one with the 360 degree mesh in it. I'm really dissapointed with this purchace -- it wasn't cheep! Has anyone else had the same experience ie. Kyusu vs. something similar to my old teapot, as described above?

[Chip]

Pretty unusual results. IMHO, nothing brews better than a kyusu when it comes to Japanese greens.

I suspect perhaps the kyusu holds more water, maybe, thus your leaf to water ratio is now more diluted?

Try more leaf ... or less water (you do not have to fill the kyusu!). There is no way a kyusu should brew up a more watery brew.

Also try a couple gentle swirls prior to pouring ... and possibly rocking the kyusu back and forth as you pour. Be sure to fully drain the kyusu as a lot of the flavor is in the last drops.

[catboy17]

Hello,

I'm a long-time lurker, perhaps first time posting?

Definitely the amount of water could be a problem. I would also say that if the water is the correct temperature when you're pouring it in, it will probably cool down greatly when it hit the teapot, leading to weaker tea. You didn't quite specify how you're heating everything, but you should probably just take some boiling water, pour it into the empty kyusu, then pour that into your teacup, then measure the temperature; it should be about right for green tea. Then just put the tea in the warm pot, pour the water from the cup back into the kyusu (pouring over the tea) brew and hopefully that will turn out better.

If you already did the preheating and just didn't mention it, then nevermind...

[Intuit]

You don't mention the volume of your kyusu. We assume that the water you use hasn't changed since you used your old pot. That shouldn't be an issue.

Season your kyusu.

http://zenchas.wordpress.com/seasoning-a-new-kyusu/

[t4texas]

I don't know since I have never tried it, but boiling a pot of sencha and soaking a kyusu in it sounds like a good way to season in a lot of bitterness. Brewing good quality sencha in it over time sounds like a better idea to me. Though I have not tried it either, leaving sencha leaves in lukewarm water (not boiling) overnight might work.

[Tead Off]

I don't know since I have never tried it, but boiling a pot of sencha and soaking a kyusu in it sounds like a good way to season in a lot of bitterness. Brewing good quality sencha in it over time sounds like a better idea to me. Though I have not tried it either, leaving sencha leaves in lukewarm water (not boiling) overnight might work.

IMO, the best pots are Banko for brewing sencha. I have tried everything else and nothing compares. Both Banko and Tokoname do not need seasoning. I think you are correct when you say brewing good quality sencha in it over time is the way to go. Good pots do not need to be seasoned. I also think Yixing pots do not need seasoning if they are made of good clay. Using good tea is the best way to break in a new pot.

[Intuit]

From the ArtisticNippon website for bankoware:

Caring for your Banko teapots
"Seasoning clay teapots - shidei teapots do not require any seasoning, just like most of the Tokoname teapots. However kata banko teapots do tend to have a clay smell. This can be removed by submerging the pot in a mixture of water and used tea leaves. It should take roughly between 1 to 3 days for the smell to disappear."

Shidei clay is purple clay that is reduction-fired.

Most, but not all Banko-yaki ware is purple clay. Teapots with interior glazing do not need conditioning, other than a careful rinse to remove dust, before use.

[Proinsias]

I've just started playing with a new kyusu. I'm not really sure seasoning is going to be much of a factor in changing the tea from watery, thin and not very green to thick, full of flavour and bright green.

I don't tend to season pots but have in the past. Whilst not something I would like to taste all the time a little clay-ish taste to the tea is not a bad thing now and again. Like the smell of a new car or a wet dog, the taste of a new teapot is a novelty.

As for the original question. I'll pick a solution out of my hat...............if you want stronger greener tea, put in less water.

[Intuit]

The OP hasn't returned; this is his one and only post.

I pointed out that he/she hadn't mentioned infusion volume.

Wanna provide a guess as to why steep two is better than steep one, if there is insufficient leaf?

[Proinsias]

I tend to find the second steep is better than the first in most cases

[Tead Off]

From the ArtisticNippon website for bankoware:

Caring for your Banko teapots
"Seasoning clay teapots - shidei teapots do not require any seasoning, just like most of the Tokoname teapots. However kata banko teapots do tend to have a clay smell. This can be removed by submerging the pot in a mixture of water and used tea leaves. It should take roughly between 1 to 3 days for the smell to disappear."

Shidei clay is purple clay that is reduction-fired.

Most, but not all Banko-yaki ware is purple clay. Teapots with interior glazing do not need conditioning, other than a careful rinse to remove dust, before use.

Intuit, there are both purple and red Banko clays. According to Hojo, 'Japanese purple clay is reduced red clay that dominant mineral is iron.'
I believe Tachi Masaki uses shudei, red clay, and, then reduces to acheive his silvery purple/brown color.

I have a banko shudei houhin with some age. it is a dark red, almost brick. This also makes good sencha and gyokuro. I have a small red Tokoname kyusu that cannot compete with the Bankos. And, I have a larger Tokoname kyusu, 360ml, that was gifted to me. This one is black and the description that comes with it says the black color is acheived through adding carbon to the surface, but, the color is originally red.

I also have an older Bizen clay teapot. This also makes good tea. I would rate the 3 clays in this order: Banko, Bizen, Tokoname. I don't think I would spend my money on the Tokonames although many are beautifully made. Bizen teapots can be very expensive. Wood-fired. Artistic Nippon had a couple made by a Banko artist. Gorgeous.

[Intuit]

We've chitchatted about reductive clay here in several threads. All three clays are iron-rich. The Bizen is very high in organic matter which makes it very fine-textured and smooth. Contemporary clays purportedly don't accept applied glazing well. Using traditional production methods, Bizen-yakiwara undergoes lengthy (I think I've seen 8-12 days mentioned) wood-firings (natural ash glaze) in climbing (flow connected, stepped chambers on a hillside) kilns. Part of it's rarity lies in the relatively few grouped potter firings each year, historically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sabukaze_05.JPG

The old base glazes were shino made with silica, not feldspar and were incredibly hard and durable. Apparently, there is a bit of controversy about the historical origin of Bizen clays, the older being high-fired and the latter, soft pottery resulting from low-fire (low silica content) clays.

http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/jcn-10.html

What I think you're getting at is the production methods (large commercial scale being Tokoname), finishing and differences in firing/quenching techniques.

As I've said before, these clays are very tight, mostly very crystalline, high-fired and thus thin-walled, mechanically strong but not terribly absorptive. In general, I believe these clays tend to be relatively chemically neutral, unless your water is hard, causing bitter precipitates and loss of aroma.

For an exceptionally analytic and careful culture, you don't see much dialog on this or that clay surfaces and their impact on tea brewing in Japan, as you do in China.

[Tead Off]

For an exceptionally analytic and careful culture, you don't see much dialog on this or that clay surfaces and their impact on tea brewing in Japan, as you do in China.

I'm not sure what the reason is for this but it seems true. Hojo, the only Japanese dealer who seems to be aware of this is primarily a Taiwan Oolong lover who understands how certain teaware affects tea. This domain is usually reserved for the Chinese who are voracious tea drinkers. But, what is more interesting to me is even with the information that is out there regarding clay and its effect on tea, there are those who completely disregard it, dismiss it, in favor of that which is only pretty or cheaper.

[olivierco]

But, what is more interesting to me is even with the information that is out there regarding clay and its effect on tea, there are those who completely disregard it, dismiss it, in favor of that which is only pretty or cheaper.

What is even more interesting to me is that I haven't found so far any convincing information about clay effect on matcha although tea ceremony is an ancient and very documented tradition.

[Carl]

I know this may not be the best place to ask my question as it regards Sado Mumyoi Yaki. Tead Off has experienced tea in one of the Sado Mumyoi pots from Hojo, and I am assuming the tea pot was made by Watanabe Tozo.

Hojo also lists kyusu made by Shimizu Ken using a different source of clay from Sado mountain. I was wondering if anyone has any comments or experience with these kyusu - they are priced a little bit less than those by Watanabe Tozo. Thanks!