The use of scales in brewing.

[joelbct]

"9" "9 grams!! You're lucky you haven't been smited!"

"Have not been smited," or "have not been smitten?" Or, perhaps, "have not been smote?"

[ABx]

Perhaps I can add to my experience with my take on art. I am personally all about using only common items at my disposal for art. I tried using specialty art items and just don't connect. For me that's what art is about.

Others have a different way of producing art and have a much better time with expensive art supplies.

The only time I would tell these others to try anything different is if they never actually produce anything and are always complaining that they "don't have the right materials" (which happens). At that point I think it's important to step back and really assess the situation, but if they're getting the results they want from the materials that seem right for them, then insisting on anything different only seems counter-productive.

[ABx]

I am amazed at the energy everyone is putting into this discussion. Who cares? It's just the big enders and the little enders all over again.

Its that I'm tired of people who don't use scales assuming that their way is better for me.

Me too, and I don't use a scale!

[Space Samurai]

It seems I was so busy defending the use of scales, I forgot to cover why I like them.

Without a scale I worry a bit, mostly wondering if I'm using enough. It becomes a distraction. Using a scale removes the distraction, so instead of spending my time thinking about how much tea I am using or water temperatures or brewing time, I get to smell the tea, look at it, fondle my teaware. In short, I would rather focus on the aesthetics of the eperience than the process.

Since I clearly prefer tea wares over tea itself, this isn't suprising.

[Chip]

I do not, nor will I ever place someone into a defensive position based on whether they do or do not use a scale. Sometimes I do feel mocked for this practice like I am less skilled in my brewing practice.

This is something I've never understood.

I think perhaps I may have given the wrong impression in the similar thread in the forum quite some time ago, but I've never felt that it's right or wrong to use a scale. Personally I don't usually use one unless I'm having a problem with some tea or need to give someone specific advice, but whether someone else uses a scale or not never really concerned me. If they are striving to get the most from their tea, then I'm not one to attempt to persuade someone to do something differently. I only hope that the person will be willing to exchange information so that I may learn from their experience, and hopefully offer something from my own experience (not something that is easily accomplished with someone convinced that their way is the "right" way).

It is my victim complex...hmmm, I did not realize I had one til now. This is a trait that I often detest in those who repeatedly use their vitim complex to falsely guilt others.

My sensing nature can hear someone's eyes rolling through cyber space when I mention the word scale...or a specific weight.

What is a hoot to me is when someone is trying to ask what size bubbles they should have for a temp I suggest, or how much steam...dude, get a thermometer or don't ask. j/k....

Good discussion...and I am not even feeling judged right now, so I will endeavor not to guilt anyone at this time. It is quite difficult to have a discussion like this in the general forum because there is a tendency to judge one's maniacal practices out there in the real world.

[tenuki]

Perhaps I can add to my experience with my take on art. I am personally all about using only common items at my disposal for art. I tried using specialty art items and just don't connect. For me that's what art is about.

Others have a different way of producing art and have a much better time with expensive art supplies.

The only time I would tell these others to try anything different is if they never actually produce anything and are always complaining that they "don't have the right materials" (which happens). At that point I think it's important to step back and really assess the situation, but if they're getting the results they want from the materials that seem right for them, then insisting on anything different only seems counter-productive.

Oh man can I relate to this. some of my best work has been with Gesso, graphite and sidewalk chalk. People would ask me 'what made you think of that?' I would just smile cause I didn't want to tell them that was all I could find in the art department dumpster. hahahah.

[scruffmcgruff]

I also get a bit of an inferiority complex from some of the no-scale rhetoric of it being more "artful," "zen-like," and "traditional," to name a few terms. These are clearly value-laden, even though they may not always be meant as such, and give off an air of elitism.

There is also the romantic idea that the scale distances one from the tea-making process; this is likely true for many, but for some (as Space so eloquently said) it removes distractions and actually brings us closer.

Anyway, I think Sal is right in that the use of a scale really isn't a big deal as part of the big picture, but I do think it shows that there is a substantial amount of tension among us over this issue. If we can take anything away from this discussion, it is to be more aware of the potential judgments we may unconsciously make about how each other practices his/her art.

[tenuki]

Before i continue, I will say that I used to strictly use a scale, but I have chosen not to so much for a while now.

Interesting, a switcher. elaborate?

The only reason I can say that using a scale is better than not using anything, is that it gives a returnable point of reference for measurement.

It makes giving advice easier, as well as making the path to the right ratios shorter.

Similar to scruffs point, but the idea of reference point for either beginning or returning is somewhat new and worth considering. This also seems to have some weight.

[scruffmcgruff]

This also seems to have some weight.

How punny!

[bambooforest]

Space Samurai wrote:

You don't like them because it seperates you from the art and zen-ness of the experience, and I respect that. I don't find that using a scale has that effect on me. I'm not a traditionalist, perhaps that's why.

I haven't studied zen much. Though, what I have seen, I find it pleasant and often illuminating.

"zen-ness" I think is often a generalized term, not necessarily intimately connected with a working understanding of zen Buddhism. To me, if you want to "zen up" your tea session the surest way to do so is to be mindful while you're preparing and enjoying your tea. You could eye ball your tea all day - but if you're mind is floating every which way, the act of eye balling it in of itself doesn't really contribute to the zen nature of the experience in my opinion.

Yet, if you're using a scale and while you use your scale you're fully present in the moment... Then the scale isn't anything to really even conceptualize - it is merely a moment within moments of enjoying your tea. Your attitude is far more likely to be an impediment to having a zen-filled tea experience than a scale could ever be.

In the end, it is my belief that the surest and most profound way to "zen up" your tea experience is to be present, right here and right now while you do your tea. To be immersed in the experience. The rest is mere commentary.

[tenuki]

Fortunately I am immune to guilt trips having been required to develop a very early resistance to them.

You guys aren't going to 'win' the discussion with that tactic, yer gonna have to talk to me about scales and how they fit into your personal philosophy and just be so stunningly eloquent, intelligent and cool that I have to join you. So far I'm not digging all the whining so I'm guessing my scale is gonna remain in my drawer.

[tenuki]

Using a scale removes the distraction, so instead of spending my time thinking about how much tea I am using or water temperatures or brewing time, I get to smell the tea, look at it, fondle my teaware.

Making tea is about how much, what temp, how long, isn't it? Why would you want to free yourself from that? And how does that produce a better cup of tea? What you are describing is a way to get a decent cup without paying attention to brewing it.

Is this not apparent to everyone else or am I out on a limb here?

And don't feel like this is a personal attack, I'm just intensely curious and trust you enough to be direct.

[Space Samurai]

...yer gonna have to talk to me about scales and how they fit into your personal philosophy...

Well, we have.

I think I was fairly clear that I use a scale because

1) I like them; they're easier and remove unwanted distractions from the moment.
2) My belief that the tools themsleves are inconsequential, and Bamboo went on to explain, quite well I believe, that what matters is one's mindset.

I don't consider our decently arguments as whining. And I don't see why any of us should bother trying to convince you when your mind is clearly made up. Why cant you simply respect that there is more than one "proper" way to make tea.

You throuh the gauntlet down and we responded fairly, but you choose to dismiss our thoughts as whining. If you want to keep using "value-laden" terms such as this, then I'll have a few for you.

[Space Samurai]

Making tea is about how much, what temp, how long, isn't it? Why would you want to free yourself from that? And how does that produce a better cup of tea? What you are describing is a way to get a decent cup without paying attention to brewing it.

Is this not apparent to everyone else or am I out on a limb here?

And don't feel like this is a personal attack, I'm just intensely curious and trust you enough to be direct.

(shrugs)

Depends on what your goal is, I guess. And I think I was clear that when I make tea, there is much more on my mind than making the best cup of tea I can. I never said that using a scale helps me make a better cup. I've always been fairly satisfied with a good or decent cup of tea.

[tenuki]

Ok, so far we have a few good reasons to use a scale:

1) To communicate your brewing parameters with others
2) A good starting or returning point, a baseline if you will
3) A shorthand that allows you to pay attention to other things besides brewing.

Any others? Did I miss any?