Taking back the forum

[scruffmcgruff]

I don't mind some off-topic chatting in the IM. If nobody is talking at all, then nobody sticks around, and fewer people are there to answer questions about tea when they are asked. The IM is a great place to be friendly, and talking about tea *only* is not always conducive to making friends.

IMO, off-topic banter should be encouraged except when someone has a tea-related question. I don't like seeing newbies' questions ignored by people in an off-topic chat.

And seriously, pot/booze/b00bs references are made in PG television shows, and honestly you shouldn't assume anything on the internet is going to be tamer than PG-13.

[Mary R]

What I loved about this forum when I first started logging on here was that the users took responsibility for themselves. If someone went on a "you're doing it wrong" jag, others stepped up and brought in the reality perspective. It worked, it was fun, and it didn't look like someone at Adagio was monitoring every little conversation.

And then the spam got a little crazy, so Chip and I got voted moderators to delete it. Easy peasy. And then we began fielding little problems. And then we began fielding bigger problems. And now everyone PMs Chip whenever they have a freaking hangnail and then there's the big swoop-and-solve production.

Honestly, I don't think more moderation is a solution to this problem. Maybe just a little more personal accountability from us and from others. Now that I'm not a mod, I don't read the other forums anymore. It's just all a little too "tea mom" for me these days. I can't say I'd catch anything on a timely basis anymore. But if you see something, step up. It's not going to hurt anything.

[Proinsias]

(sidebar, I do wish AMY210 would change his avie, he is on seemingly nonstop and I am tired of looking at his mug )

I don't even use the IM and his ugly mug scrolling up the side of the screen grates on me.

[Victoria]

It is funny how we all seem to be coming to this point this week. I too, have been watching the newbie threads and trying to help and sensing the frustration when too much info is thrown at them. Not to mention snide remarks. In fact, earlier this week I went through a bunch of introduction treads to see how many of them ever did more than one post. Now I know the introductions are different, than a newbie asking questions, but still they represent interested people who for whatever reason lost interest.

When a newbie is having trouble getting it right with their ingenuiTea, throwing gongfu at them isn't going to help. And someone using or wanting to use a little sugar shouldn't be labeled a "sugarfreak" - (a'la oni)

And I agree I have seen the IM get progressively worse as of late.

I believe the addition of one, or perhaps more mods, should be addressed. Chip has done an excellent job, but it's too much for one person.

[brandon]

Honestly, I don't think more moderation is a solution to this problem. Maybe just a little more personal accountability from us and from others. Now that I'm not a mod, I don't read the other forums anymore. It's just all a little too "tea mom" for me these days. I can't say I'd catch anything on a timely basis anymore. But if you see something, step up. It's not going to hurt anything.

Luckily Mary said what I was thinking with more credibility and tact than I could muster myself.

[scruffmcgruff]

Yes, Mary is tactful, not to mention convincing. Funny how that works! Member support is probably more harmonious for the forum and reassuring to newbies than frequent mod interventions (though there is a place and time for those too).

That said, if Chip wants or needs assistance to cover general forum maintenance, I have no problem with that.

On another issue, I have a question for Chip and/or Mary about the complaints they used to get because of IM behavior. Were they from people who felt that they could not ask a question in the IM, or just prissy people complaining about the content they saw? I honestly couldn't give a shit about the latter group; that's why the Disable Chat feature was added. But if our OT and sometimes rambunctious behavior prevented people outside our circle from getting a word in edgewise, that is something I think we should be concerned with.

[Chip]

I have found a lot of good topics and discussions, lately, as always. Green tea is starting to heat up with the mere mention of SHINCHA. A lot of excellent TEA talk throughout the forum.

The topic of labeling and cliquishness has been mentioned in ITD and on the forum previously. If TeaMom is intended to be derogatory, that too is a bit cliquish. Is it because the "teamoms" are not good enough?

[Sydney]

Regarding the history and development of "TeaMom"....

While I'm sure other influences came to bear, I started using the term last year during a period in which it seemed exceedingly difficult to carry on daily business without "but moms and children are being offended" becoming an issue.

It wasn't intended as insulting to anyone at all. But it became one of the terms associated with dismay some of us were feeling at the time. We felt that we were being pushed away almost forcibly to make room for others toward whom the forum was, we suspected, being re-oriented.

It's come to take on various meanings with other people, but I believe I was the one who coined the term.

I mainly use it in a humorous and affectionate sense these days, but I've also seen it used to mean things like "people who pile up post counts in TeaDay without adding anything of substance to the forum" and a few other variants. Some of these have critical uses/meanings, but I feel it would be inappropriate for us not to be allowed to think and speak critically within reason.

We're not all alike, and some of us do sort of group together out of familiarity and some sense of internet affection. It's natural and healthy.

But I do think some TeaMoms try to get rid of TeaThugs waaay more than TeaThugs ever bother TeaMoms.

[Salsero]

everyone PMs Chip whenever they have a freaking hangnail

I was afraid to mention this, but I think I see one developing on me. At what point do I need to bring Chip in?

if Chip wants or needs assistance to cover general forum maintenance, I have no problem with that.

Assuming that you are not banned yourself.

[Chip]

First of all, no group or groups of people were nor are being pushed out through reorientation of the forum. TeaDay was born out of the simple desire to have people share what is in their cup, and while they are there, vote and discuss today's topic. Casual and approachable to EVERYONE. If you go back to the beginning, I would use the term EVERYONE almost every day in the OP.

EVERYONE, including several appeals to ITD to get involved. My intent was not to force anyone to join in, but to let everyone know they were welcome to join in if they wanted to. If it is not your cup of tea, simply ignore TD and carry on with the rest of the forum. But nobody should feel threatened by the desire of some to engage in a more casual cup sharing atmosphere. What is the harm in this? That would be akin to green tea drinkers being threatened by TeaChef participants who want to cook with tea, a stretch, but I hope you catch my drift.

It was an add-on, not a replacement. Had someone come to me and shared this feeling, I could have put those fears to rest. I hope this is still not the case?

It is also a place, a cyber tearoom of sorts, for members to get to know each other and at other times go off topic in order to facilitate getting to know each other. Sometimes the off topics are refreshing, just like here in ITD which is often hardly about tea.

No big deal, nobody is forcing anyone to join in, and the rest of the forum remained pretty much the same.

Interestingly, I sometimes see a lot of very good discussion on the subject of tea in TeaDay. Sometimes it is light, sometimes it is as deep as the level of the individual poster's sometimes limited experience.

The fact is however, I do see TeaMom used in a derogatory or judgmental manner to this day. I saw it on IM and I see it even in this topic. It sounds to me like a judgement of a class of people, a group of members. Please tell me I am wrong in this assessment.

[Sydney]

Had someone come to me and shared this feeling, I could have put those fears to rest. I hope this is still not the case?

Actually, as I recall, we were quite expressive about our concerns at the time.

The fact is however, I do see TeaMom used in a derogatory or judgmental manner to this day.

That I can't personally address, but I can conceive of people holding derogatory and/or judgmental feelings toward some others and using "TeaMom" as the label for them.

For instance, it's not unrealistic that some might beef against people who complain about them, perhaps frequently, vaguely, and/or with embellishment, and use derogatory terms in that beefing.

I might go so far as to say that it's unrealistic and just plain morally wrong to require that people quietly endure being the subject of a seemingly endless stream of complaints.

[Mary R]

My prior use of "TeaMom" was two-fold. I was, obviously, channeling the original usage--offense at the drop of a hat over really trivial things--but I was also referring to fluff users--post after post after post about themselves or the twelfth tea they've drank today. You know, the "ZOMG, white peppermint oolongz!" crowd.

I didn't mean "people who hang out in TeaDay," though I won't deny that I think both types of the above are especially drawn to that forum. That's a good part of why I steer clear of TeaDay entirely.

I have a question for Chip and/or Mary about the complaints they used to get because of IM behavior. Were they from people who felt that they could not ask a question in the IM, or just prissy people complaining about the content they saw?

In my case, complaints came almost exclusively prissy people, and they were over very trivial things. There were a few cases where a normal user might contact me over a true whackadoo (Mocha and Karia were great examples), or a technical issue, but the majority of complaints were of the sort that made for great eyerolls.

I was afraid to mention this, but I think I see one developing on me. Shocked At what point do I need to bring Chip in?

That's a question Chip should really answer, but my feeling on it is "when it gets to a point where you can no longer handle it." 'Course, a lot of that depends on the situation at hand. If it's something like you noticing a user getting "holier than thou" on someone else, I would probably first post a "hey, dude...chill + constructive advice to querant" in the thread. If the user continues in his/her douchebaggery, I'd PM him/her. If the user responds in a hostile manner or becomes hostile in the forums, well...congratulations! He/she has now crossed into harassment and made the whole affair an issue a moderator can legitimately act upon...send Chip or Xine a PM.

Actually, as I recall, we were quite expressive about our concerns at the time.

Ditto.

[brandon]

I don't remember the wording of my initial reaction to TeaDay, but I generally ignored it for a long time. Recently I have tried to be proactive and participate, in the vain hope that my example may encourage a more substantive discourse.

[scruffmcgruff]

I think I would be more ambivalent about TeaDay if it didn't pop up in my RSS feed all the time and shove other posts out due to the 25 posts cap in the feed. I don't have a single problem with TeaDay except for that (actually fairly major) annoyance, and occasionally I'll chime in there if I see a poll or topic that catches my fancy. I know it's a bit OT, but a lot of other forum sites have separate RSS feeds for each forum-- is that something we could implement here?

As for the use of the word TeaMom... whatever. We are going to laugh at people who *BOO* and moan all the time about us, so we might as well have a coined term for them. I don't really see people using that word to refer to a specific person, or calling people TeaMoms to their e-faces, so it's a non-issue as far as I am concerned.

[hop_goblin]

Taking this forum back?

* Hands out pitch forks and torches*