Taking back the forum

[Space Samurai]

This was something I almost pmed Chip, then I said to hell with it, this is our forum. In a very real way the people in here are the ones who helped build it up.

"This machine almost caused me to stop coming to TeaChat for this exact reason. I made an innocent inquiry about it when I first joined and got similar snobby anwers."

I have seen statements like this before, thus at this point, I really am asking very few questions...

I just think this is unacceptable.

How many people have we turned away now with this elitist bullshit thats bubbling out of the pu forum. I've had to listen again and again to how allienating we were last year with sencha, but I think now its just as bad if not worse.

Lately if you aren't gong fuing your tea, your doing it wrong. And they are openly criticising people (newbies, bloggers) in the IM.

I am finding that every time I or someone else stands up to them, others and newbies speak up. Which makes me think when we don't say anything, there are people silently being turned away.

I want to take back this forum and make it friendly and inviting again. If that means I have to go behind Oni and Heavy Doom and the others all the time and stick up for the new folks till they go back and sulk in their pu thread, so be it. But enough is enough all ready.

[Geekgirl]

+1

It really is disgraceful. (As a sidenote, I made my tea this morning in a pyrex measuring cup, steeped it too long and drank it coldish. It was still tea.)

We've got some weird stuff going on in chat, too. I've seen a LOT of veiled references to sex, pot and other PG-13 to Rated R stuff. Not to mention just a lot of idiotic behavior and "spamming" from some of the newbies. The OT conversation (if you could call it "conversing,") while not terribly offensive in itself, (although it would be great to not have to wade through the new college boys repeatedly suggesting how much they need to get laid,) just does not belong in there. And it's in there around the clock lately.

To top it off, we have new people (and a couple long-terms) insinuating that certain methods are for idiots or cheaters. More than one of these posts bombards the poor questioner with reasons why their tea is a total waste of time if they don't do it in exactly a certain way.

Am I the first to say it? This forum needs more mods. Chip can't do it by himself, Xine is rarely here to help.

[Space Samurai]

Am I the first to say it? This forum needs more mods. Chip can't do it by himself, Xine is rarely here to help.

I think we all agree that Chip is doing an excellent job, but that is not a bad idea.

I think we may also need specific rules about this kind of thing. Some sort of "all teas and all tea drinking styles are accepted here, unfriendly behavior will not be tolerated" sort of thing. If there isn't already one.

[Geekgirl]

Am I the first to say it? This forum needs more mods. Chip can't do it by himself, Xine is rarely here to help.

I think we all agree that Chip is doing an excellent job, but that is not a bad idea.

Yeah, I was just referencing the obvious that, due to necessaries such as sleeping, eating, working, drinking tea... a single person can't oversee an entire forum of this size.

[Sydney]

It's hard not to veer OT if you spend much time in Live Chat, and we can get a little colorful in there at times (and "we" includes "me"), because our lives are richer than simply having good tea handy.

But I agree entirely with the spirit of the idea that we can and should to some degree help make and keep the tone of the discussion positive.

I've been in Live Chat, and to a lesser extent on the forum, a lot this week while stuck at home sick and mind-numbingly bored. During this time, I've seen enough to completely agree that we should stand up and help make things better, for us and for those newer to tea and/or TeaChat itself.

Now, I think we're going to wind up disagreeing about some finer points. For instance, I see a mountain of difference between a reference to something like pot and actually promoting its use (which is actually also OK by me, if not actually appropriate in this particular context). I don't think references to driving in excess of the speed limit (for example) would get the kind of strong reactions that pot references get, even though speeding is arguably far more problematic.

But in a general sense, I think there's much to be gained and little enough to lose by stepping up and defending against real negativity.

[scruffmcgruff]

Yes... more mods would be good. Perhaps we could add a few mods to specifically cover certain forums while Chip keeps house and maintains general order like he does now?

[bi lew chun]

(As a sidenote, I made my tea this morning in a pyrex measuring cup, steeped it too long and drank it coldish. It was still tea.)

+1 to Team Pyrex.

More mods is not a bad idea at all, although actively engaging and standing up for newbs might be a more effective strategy. Where there are hardcore enthusiast forums, there will be snobs; the complexity and breadth of tea probably generates them at an advanced rate. That breadth also might make it difficult for the forum to develop a strong sense of solidarity among all its members. Unlike other hobby forums where the main topic is more specific, it could be hard for Pu'erMasterD to relate to IWuvZarafina. Maybe we need a welcoming slogan: Remember, it's just tea.

The slogan at Head-Fi.org is Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet. I think it helps to remind everyone--whether their audio setup cost $50 or $5000--that they're all there for the same basic reason, especially when the guy with $40,000 in audio equipment says it to the guy looking to buy $12 ear buds.

[Geekgirl]

Now, I think we're going to wind up disagreeing about some finer points. For instance, I see a mountain of difference between a reference to something like pot and actually promoting its use (which is actually also OK by me, <i><b>if not actually appropriate in this particular context).</i></b> I don't think references to driving in excess of the speed limit (for example) would get the kind of strong reactions that pot references get, even though speeding is arguably far more problematic.

My main point. Everybody has IM, and there's always the super-secret chatroom if people on tinychat want to talk about booze, pot, booze and speeding. Pages and pages of it in tc, round the clock... makes it not fun at all for some of us who enjoyed chat up until the last few days to a week.

[Sydney]

I dunno. Maybe it's possible I missed something, although I've been in Live Chat a lot this week, but I haven't seen a spike in wildness over the last few days.

And I've actually noticed almost no pot references. I see pot and recreational drug use complained about more than actually mentioned.

I do see a fair bit of beer brewing chat, but that doesn't seem wildly off-topic to me these days (but it used to, so I understand).

The solution I see is to go to Live Chat and talk about tea.

[Geekgirl]

hehe, didn't mean to write "booze" twice. That should have been b00bs. But I'm trying to unvirus my computer at the moment and it's proving to be such a problem I've started thinking of hard liquor.

[fencerdenoctum]

I'm with you guys. I've been seeing a lot of "I'm taking my ball and going home" posts or chats lately. Pretty much the only reason I stuck around was because of the live chat. I doubt many of you remember when I popped in, but at first I felt like I dipped my foot in a creek and found the ocean when it came to tea. Had not a lot of folks been welcoming/crazy I would have left. After a couple of chats I felt like logging on to teachat was like showing up at Cheers.

The tone of the forum has kinda changed over the past year and I'm really not sure why or how. When I first starting coming around, things seemed to be a lot more casual. Sort of a "Hey, you like tea? Me too! Lets all drink tea and rick roll each other." Now it seems like there are more and more folks looking for instruction first and friends later. While that isn't bad, tea is a great stand alone hobby, but to me its an even greater compliment to other hobbies. Besides, what good is having the best tea in the world if you have no one to share it with?

Fencer
ITD Glee Club

[ABx]

Well it seems like we were always here for instruction first, but things were friendly enough that it went hand in hand with being social and friendly. Luckily we have a few newbies that are still into that, like gingko, herb_master, girlchocolate, and amy210; so let's not forget about them entirely.

I do agree, though, that the overall atmosphere has become too snobish. There's some like wyardley that really mean things in the best of intentions (like encouraging newbies to get the best and start brewing gongfu style), but I think some of the semi-newbies take it way too far. I was actually thinking about starting a thread like this, but I'm glad I didn't because, tbh, I wasn't aware of the things going on the puerh forum because I kinda got disgusted with them a long time ago and just ignored them. I have been seeing what you guys are talking about in the chat, though, and hopefully I haven't given into too much of it myself while trying to keep the chat going about tea and encouraging the likes of girlchocolate to get things like an infuser mug to start out.

Things aren't all bad, I don't think they've gone beyond the brink yet, but I do think that we need to figure out what's going on and a find a way to counter it. More mods would help, but there's a lot we can do by just recognizing the problem and countering it when we see it.

[Salsero]

actively engaging and standing up for newbs might be a more effective strategy

Although I had never read that thread because I have no interest in the Zarafina, I searched for Space's reference and looked at the thread. It looks to me like (at least in this case) a lot of people jumped on the transgression and did a good job of policing attitudes.

While I agree that it is a shame it happened and it is never fun seeing people's feelings hurt, the system, loose as it is, does seem to be working ... at least in the forums.

The IM on the other hand … well the IM is always problematic. Maybe we could have IM moderators? But who’s up for the 24 hour task of watching the IM?

[Salsero]

I wasn't aware of the things going on the puerh forum because I kinda got disgusted with them a long time ago and just ignored them.

I am not aware of any "things going on in the puerh forum" and I follow it pretty closely. I think Space was referring to certain people in the IM ... though I don't know who since I haven't been there much lately. Gong fu elitism seems actually more prevalent among the oolong set than puerh posters, so I think it is possible that Space has made a mistake in pointing toward the Pu Forum.

[Chip]

*Quiet and listening, til now*

A few comments from one who has been on TC for nearly 3 years. There are ebbs and flows to the forum. There are times when the intrusive nature of the MOST hard core element of the passionately fervent gong fu brewers is over zealous, pervasive for instance, this is not new. People left TC 2.5 years ago when strikingly similar hardcore elements came to the top, then they eased as the more liberal or moderate brewing elements and others began to rule.

It is much like the political ebbs and flows of the USA. Republicans and Democrats, right wings and left wings take turns living in the White House or taking over the majority of Congress.

The forum is constantly working to find a balance, but realistically it can never permanently achieve anyway since it is not a cohesive group of clones, but a collection of pretty non mainstream individuals. Checking it at its extremes seems to work.

While sticking up for newbies is good, too much or poorly worded attempts can create flame wars. There is something to be said for diplomacy. And PMing me as well, but I am only human, too.

IM, when I see a problem, I pop in and completely change the subject to something like Yutaka Midori and keep rattling on til everyone gets my intent. I actually get a kick out of doing this, and it is more effective most times than a hand slap. I would encourage others to offer similar gentle tea-topic nudges when appropriate, taking back the IM. PM me if you see a problem. Offenders can be "banned" from the IM for a period of time as a last resort. (sidebar, I do wish AMY210 would change his avie, he is on seemingly nonstop and I am tired of looking at his mug )