oldmanteapot wrote:
I'll post some pics of this baby when I have reached my allowable limit to start posting links.
Cheers!
I don't believe there is any rule that stops you displaying a photo inline in your post.New members with less than 6 posts and less than 30 days membership shall not post links.
Just to be clear, I absolutely think that experimentation is a good way to determine what type of tea suits what teapot (rather than relying on some "rule" alone). And I agree that you're not going to ruin a pot by trying it out with different types of tea. I just think that the taste of the brewed tea should be the bigger consideration than the appearance of the pot while the tea is being brewed.zicheng wrote:Those of you who believe in this affinity thing are commiting yourselves to advocating trying different teas in the same Yixing. I think that this is a very good idea. Just because the teapot is made of a certain clay doesn't mean it's necessarily good for a certain tea, if only because you may know less about the clay than you think.
Even though many people (especially vendors) say that you should never brew more than one kind of tea in one Yixing, I think a little experimentation early on is okay. One brew won't affect the teapot much in the long run.
But the pots the author is talking about as being ideal are something like 250-500ml - more than just big enough to let the leaves expand. What he's saying is that masters who work in artistic styles tend to prefer making larger pots (for aesthetic reasons), and that since these masters have access to the best clay, their pots are therefore the best suited for making tea. To me, this (like most of the book) is a collector making up a rationalization for his own collecting preferences.oldmanteapot wrote:I agree with your observations. It all depends on the tea we're brewing. I'll use a small zhuni teapot if i'm brewing Da Hong Pao, but a slightly larger one when I'm brewing Lao Chong Shui Shien, which happens to have larger and longer leaves. Having more space for the tea leaves to expand releases more flavour and aroma from the tea.Tead Off wrote: His claim that small teapots cannot make good tea may have some merit, imo. As a user of small tea pots, I find that the tea leaves often taste better and are allowed to come into contact with the water more effectively if a slightly larger pot is used or less leaf is put into the small pot. This seems to allow the leaves to expand and give their all.
That's the impression I get. It just seems like maybe his ideas are too greatly influenced by his own collecting preferences. Like I said, this is fine with me; the issue I have is that he's trying to present this as fact. On the other hand, I've heard that a lot of teapot collectors (especially the ones who collect large artistic pots) are not that into tea drinking, so it's good that he's at least using his pots to make tea!oldmanteapot wrote: I've met him in person a couple of times and he is a very opinionated rich old man who has all the millions to spend on artisan teapots who only churns out top quality clay teapots.
Of course not! Sorry if it came across that way.oldmanteapot wrote: Please accept my apologies if I've offended you or your collections of teapots.
LOLz.... coming from an island well known for good local food, your analogy comes across perfectly clear! I concur with you that that doesn't the author didn't come up with a convincing and conclusive claim. Especially for a hobby like drinking tea and collecting teapots where personal preference plays a vital part, it's very hard to come up with a conclusive claim unless it's a clear and clean fact. Then again, like I've said before, one man's meat may be another's poison.This all may be true, but it doesn't prove conclusively that salted food tastes better than unsalted food. Maybe a bad analogy, but it's the best I can do right now.
This business about certain teas giving a teapot a special shine as evidence of it having affinity to a certain tea has correlation fallacy written all over it. A teapot's shine and the taste of the tea the teapot brews don't have any causal connection in my mind. Who's to say that the clay may have one kind of affinity (causing the clay to shine) for a given type of tea while lacking another kind of affinity (causing the tea to taste good) for the same kind of tea?wyardley wrote:Just to be clear, I absolutely think that experimentation is a good way to determine what type of tea suits what teapot (rather than relying on some "rule" alone). And I agree that you're not going to ruin a pot by trying it out with different types of tea. I just think that the taste of the brewed tea should be the bigger consideration than the appearance of the pot while the tea is being brewed.zicheng wrote:Those of you who believe in this affinity thing are commiting yourselves to advocating trying different teas in the same Yixing. I think that this is a very good idea. Just because the teapot is made of a certain clay doesn't mean it's necessarily good for a certain tea, if only because you may know less about the clay than you think.
Even though many people (especially vendors) say that you should never brew more than one kind of tea in one Yixing, I think a little experimentation early on is okay. One brew won't affect the teapot much in the long run.
And without some general guidelines to help narrow things down, matching a tea to a teapot would take forever.
But the pots the author is talking about as being ideal are something like 250-500ml - more than just big enough to let the leaves expand. What he's saying is that masters who work in artistic styles tend to prefer making larger pots (for aesthetic reasons), and that since these masters have access to the best clay, their pots are therefore the best suited for making tea. To me, this (like most of the book) is a collector making up a rationalization for his own collecting preferences.oldmanteapot wrote:I agree with your observations. It all depends on the tea we're brewing. I'll use a small zhuni teapot if i'm brewing Da Hong Pao, but a slightly larger one when I'm brewing Lao Chong Shui Shien, which happens to have larger and longer leaves. Having more space for the tea leaves to expand releases more flavour and aroma from the tea.Tead Off wrote: His claim that small teapots cannot make good tea may have some merit, imo. As a user of small tea pots, I find that the tea leaves often taste better and are allowed to come into contact with the water more effectively if a slightly larger pot is used or less leaf is put into the small pot. This seems to allow the leaves to expand and give their all.
I have no objection to people matching pots to teas intuitively, and I have no illusions that my own ideas about teapots and tea are probably deeply irrational. The only issue I have is that the author of the book claims that he will scientifically prove that his theory is correct, and then proceeds to do no such thing. Is there something to the idea that a pot will have a natural shine when the right type of tea is brewed in it? Maybe! I don't think that the author presents any evidence other than anecdotal evidence to prove his theory. It would be like if I said "food tastes better with salt added, and I know this because I ate some food and it tasted better after I added salt. Then, my friend came over and I put salt on his food and he agreed that the food with salt tasted better". This all may be true, but it doesn't prove conclusively that salted food tastes better than unsalted food. Maybe a bad analogy, but it's the best I can do right now.
It's been a while since I read the book, so I'll try to give it another read at home tonight.
For the folks who are commenting without reading the book, keep in mind that the ideas from the book presented in this thread are greatly simplified, so a lot of the comments here, while they're interesting, aren't really relevant to the book in question.
That's the impression I get. It just seems like maybe his ideas are too greatly influenced by his own collecting preferences. Like I said, this is fine with me; the issue I have is that he's trying to present this as fact. On the other hand, I've heard that a lot of teapot collectors (especially the ones who collect large artistic pots) are not that into tea drinking, so it's good that he's at least using his pots to make tea!oldmanteapot wrote: I've met him in person a couple of times and he is a very opinionated rich old man who has all the millions to spend on artisan teapots who only churns out top quality clay teapots.
Of course not! Sorry if it came across that way.oldmanteapot wrote: Please accept my apologies if I've offended you or your collections of teapots.
This thread has some thoughts on the subject.t4texas wrote:Perhaps we can focus this a little bit in a concrete way that would give people some idea of a starting place when trying to figure out what teas to try in a new pot.
I had one vendor tell me that tall, narrow (very narrow), cylindrical pots are ideal for hong cha, but I don't know the theory behind that. I certainly can't imagine those pots being used for much else because the shape is too narrow for almost anything else.chrl42 wrote: For Hongcha, I like elegant huge pots like Mei Ren Jin, Yi Li Zhu, Bao Chun.
Thanks for the detailed list, Charles, but I can't connect all the names of pot shapes to the shapes. Is there a topic with photos of pots and their shape names? I saw a few in one of your posts in the topic that wyardley linked to above. (I had forgotten about that topic.) More of that would be really helpful.chrl42 wrote:There are many sayings, but one can never believe em unless one can experience in person. Or there may never be right answer as preference lies on individuals.
For example, for heat retention, I heard thicker, round-bodied or tall-bodied, high-fired pot better, and large-mouthed pot leaks heat (like Gaiwan) but large-mouthed pots enables for Puerh to release their leaves, so that's paradox. Or maybe it doesn't matter as long as lid is closed.
For Oolongs, I like small, Zhuni pots, traditional Gongfu patterns such as pear-shaped, Xi Shi, Long Dan, Ju Lun Zhu, Shui Ping etc..
I tend to give Yancha larger mouth such as Jun De, Bian Deng, large-mouthed Shi Piao..
And light-Oolong small mouth such as Long Dan, Si Ting, Zhui Qiu, Zhi Tong Hu
For Sheng, I like flatten, ones with good pouring. Such as Shi Piao, Fang Gu, Shui Ping, Sang Bian etc..
For Hongcha, I like elegant huge pots like Mei Ren Jin, Yi Li Zhu, Bao Chun.
That's my preference, what's yours?
No - completely straight, tall sides; cylindrical, maybe 3-4x as high as it is in diameter. Sort of like a shape that was used in really old Yixing kettles, only much, much smaller. If I can find a picture in the next couple days, I'll try to post something like what I'm talking about.t4texas wrote: wyardley, when you say tall, narrow, cylindrical pots are you talking about a dragon egg shape or something else? Interesting, but I am having a hard time connecting that description to a pot shape.
