The use of scales in brewing.

[Chip]

Ok, so far we have a few good reasons to use a scale:

1) To communicate your brewing parameters with others
2) A good starting or returning point, a baseline if you will
3) A shorthand that allows you to pay attention to other things besides brewing.

Any others? Did I miss any?

I quote the Oolong Queen who happens not to use one...

OY...

I truly do not think you should use a scale and could give more reasons why you should not than why you should.

[tenuki]

My belief that the tools themsleves are inconsequential, and Bamboo went on to explain, quite well I believe, that what matters is one's mindset.

The mindset is full concentration on what you are doing, be it breathing, sweeping, making tea. You won't find very many vacuum cleaners at a Zen monastery methinks. Using tools to put aside what you are really doing so that you can do something else is pretty much anti-zen.

I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out that you are not practicing zen as I understand it.

But you are in luck!!! I don't understand Zen!

[Space Samurai]

Again, I never claimed to practice Zen. You are making rebuttals directed at me on positions that I did not take

Out of curiosity, in what way does not using a scale make a better cup of tea? I understand the opinions that you have stated for your preferences, but it is not clear to me on how your methods are superior.

[tenuki]

Ok, so far we have a few good reasons to use a scale:

1) To communicate your brewing parameters with others
2) A good starting or returning point, a baseline if you will
3) A shorthand that allows you to pay attention to other things besides brewing.

Any others? Did I miss any?

Hey, I'm being serious here. Rereading this after your response made me realize that #3 is a bit, ok a lot purjorative. So help me write a new #3 and stop winking!

[tenuki]

Okakura also said, "Art, to be fully appreciated, must be true to contemporaneous life. It is not we should ignore the claims of poseterity, but that we should seek to enjoy the present more...slavish conformity to traditions and formulas fetters the espression of individuality."

Beautiful quote. That is _exactly_ why I don't use a scale. 4g/100ml (or whatever) is a formula.

ROFLMAO, don't you find it hilarious that we both think this quote proves our point.

Come on, you got to see the humor in it...

[tenuki]

In what way does not using a scale make a better cup of tea? I understand the opinions that you have stated for your preferences, but it is not clear to me on how your methods are superior.

Well, I think we've already established that we are only talking about 'better' (superior has some connotations I'm not interested in using) relative to a person's goal. Right? different people different goals different 'better'.

My goal is to improve my brewing skill in search of an ever better cup of tea and to improve my life by grounding myself solely in my present task, clearing my mind of attachment and clutter.

So why do I brew without a scale (even matcha, even sencha, yes it's true)?

I think it gives you the _possibility_ of making a better cup of tea and more possibility to learn more directly from the tea itself.

I think it opens you up to errors and accidents, which are required for learning anything.

I think it forces you to be aware of your surroundings and decisions to a greater degree.

I believe the result of this approach comes to fruition when presented with a new/untried tea. If you've been paying attention to everything and are used to judging things based on examining the tea and the surroundings you will have a better chance of brewing a perfect cup of tea first time than the scale user who starts at a baseline.

I will admit that I am truly bad at brewing tea, so I can't really back up my claims with a perfect cup of tea, or to be honest even a more grounded life. But a scale just makes it worse in my experience.

[CynTEAa]

Quite a thread! The reason a scale is used in tea tasting is simply consistency, for what it's worth.

[bambooforest]

In all fairness, it is far easier to get away without using a scale when brewing oolong gong fu style than it is when brewing say, sencha. Gong fu style has a greater margin of error in my opinion. Sencha, is more susceptible to measurement. Though, this varies in how you brew your sencha.

I've always admired the practice of not using a scale, and have said so many times on another forum. However, since I only drink tea twice a day, and treasure each session immeasurably - I don't want to screw up even a single session over the premise of not using a scale. That simply lacks common sense.

I predict that in the future I will experiment with using a scale less and less. There is a certain satisfaction that comes without using a scale (though this is entirely subjective).

Tenuki, since you seem adamant about not using a scale, I can only assume you also do not use a timer.

[Salsero]

I use measuring cups when I cook too. When I make tea, I am just making tea. I am not having a religious experience.

[olivierco]

I use a scale, a timer and very often a digital thermometer (and have also a semi-teafridge).

I am not particularly envious of people who don't use any modern tools to make tea. The only point is to enjoy tea.

[hop_goblin]

I am amazed at the energy everyone is putting into this discussion. Who cares? It's just the big enders and the little enders all over again.

LOL

[scruffmcgruff]

I do see tenuki's point regarding what is essentially the evolution of his technique (random "errors" in the tea-making process which may have good or bad effects, similar to genetic mutations). On the other hand, though, one could argue that by intentionally changing parameters one is better able to account for the change which has taken place, and may be better able to absorb the new data into one's technique. The drawback is, of course, that we may not always want to intentionally vary our parameters, so the evolution would be slower.

It seems to me as though quantitation could only help one's development (to a certain point, anyway; it doesn't necessarily lead to intuition or "feel"), so long as we don't get deluded into thinking all the other variables are as quantitative.

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there is also room to make "errors" (changes) when you use a scale, too.

[tenuki]

Tenuki, since you seem adamant about not using a scale, I can only assume you also do not use a timer.

I'm not even gonna start that conversation. hahahaha.

[tenuki]

Here's another angle which arose out of remembering my last brewing session last night:

I think the scale is too one dimensional.

For oolongs my target is create a certain sort of weave in the gaiwan, with the leaves completely filling the volume, pushing gently on the lid, yet loose enough for water to circulate.

To accomplish this I look carefully at the leaves and imagine what they may be like unfurled. This forces me to heft them to get an idea of their weight, look at them very closely to try to determine their thickness, color and texture and remember how I brewed this last time and even think back on all the teas I've made before in my life in order to make my best judgement on how much to put in the Gaiwan this time.

After the first brewing I take another close look, and again for the next two. I see how the leaves are unfurling and try to determine if the amount I chose was good or not. This also helps me figure out better brew times, because I have other targets like leaves fully unfurled by 3 brewings, and mostly unfurled at one. It uncovers sublty like 'this tea needs a flash rinse first then leave it sit for an minute before you brew it.'

In short using your senses and attention to determine 'how much' is multidimensional and sensual and feeds a richer context into the next steps in the process. I think that you would be shocked at the reliability that is possible through human senses alone, and I feel that with this method I have a shorter path to 'finding' a new tea.

A scale, well, it is one number and maps to good/bad, enough/more/less in the cup. It isn't connected to any other part of the process.

[tenuki]

In all fairness, it is far easier to get away without using a scale when brewing oolong gong fu style than it is when brewing say, sencha. Gong fu style has a greater margin of error in my opinion. Sencha, is more susceptible to measurement. Though, this varies in how you brew your sencha.

Interesting Bamboo, I think the opposite in many regards to you, this should be interesting!

I think Sencha and matcha are far more standard when it comes to volume/mass ratios and therefor less requiring of a scale. I commonly use a standard teaspoon to measure sencha and the scoop to measure matcha and would bet you I get as accurate a measure as a scale without the futzing.

I think gong fu style has a smaller margin of error for oolong, but my assumption may be wrong. for instance, most oolong lovers in this forum use a basket, lower temp water and long brew times. this widens the 'goodness window'. brewing the same tea gong fu style the window of goodness is very narrow, purhaps a few seconds instead of the 20 seconds or so of tolerance lower water temperatures alllow for. I think the green oolongs are the hardest tea to brew (and get even a decent cup) via gong fu on the planet hands down.

I'm sure there is disagreement on this, just putting my point of view out there in contrast.

I find it interesting that most die hard scale users are sencha and matcha drinkers (seem that way anyway) - a place I would think a scale was unnecessary. That bears some examination I think, there might be some interesting ideas there.

In any case, I'm bringing my scale out this week and playing with it. You guys have given me enough reason to examine some of my assumptions.