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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by Tead Off » Aug 25th 09 4:01 am

tingjunkie wrote:
Maitre_Tea wrote:Not to rain on your parade, but how is the vendor so sure this is the 90s, if not earlier?
She has personally owned it since then. I have no reason not to trust her, as she does not know a single thing about Yixing, and therefore does not have any reason to use the mid 90's as a selling point. Only in the word of Yixing is something from the 90's already considered a valuable antique! :lol: As I said, I'm waiting to hear back to see if it was already old/second when she acquired it. If so, then I'm going to pull the trigger and take my chances.
IMO, mid 90's is NOT a selling point. 70's, 80's, yes.

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by Maitre_Tea » Aug 25th 09 4:12 am

Maybe in the future the 90s pots will be worth (money-wise) like the 80s pots. I mean, we can't keep buying old pots, right? Someday 90s pots are going to be old and better than "modern" pots in the future.

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by chrl42 » Aug 25th 09 5:25 am

I'm just a beginner to early-Yixings, not at the height of investigate its originality.

That pot however, (as wyardley mentioned) looks like some oxide powder-mixed clay
Back then, most commonly used were

Muo Luni (Ben Shan Luni + Baini + cobalt oxide) - green or blue
Hei Liao (Zini + cobalt oxide + manganese oxide) - sorta black
Pin Zini (Zini + manganese oxide) - brown-ish

Taking about Muo Luni, because Ben Shan Luni and cobalt itself (was imported one) was a rare stock, and it required effort and skill to make this clay, thus Muo Luni itself became sorta rarity (I'm talking about Factory-1 Muo Luni)

Factory-1 Zini is called 'Pu ni (normal clay)', it's so-called Qing Shui ni, Zini, Di Cao Qing etc..all mixed clay. Nowadays clays themselves are sorted out specifically, but back then was run by goverment, factory-running, for mass production. So while good clays were in hand on goverment authority, not every pots were made carefully at best..(tho they had group who specialized in highly decorated pot), and that's why you can't see factory-1 Zhuni often..

Clay was the same, they didn't care sort out, instead they'd add chemical substances to differentiate the color, to same clay. Or just spray/dipping (Nei Zi Wai Hong)

Zisha Yichang (Factory-1, 1966~1997) was goverment-owned factory, main goal my opinion, was to provide aristocratic Yixings to standard Chinese comrades, and start operating a huge-size exportation.

Briefing his history,

*Cultural Revolution (65~75) - clay good, craft level so-so
*~82 (green egg sticker) -
* ~87 (Jia Zi year (84) produced greatest Zisha, but at that time too many none-factory pots were being produced, a messed period........end of Zao Qi Hu (early period pot) period

*~92 (diamond sticker) - a lot of pots were made for Taiwan, so craft-level high, clay also good
*97 (round, silver sticker) -craft-level good, clay so-so

Studying early pots give a headache :shock:

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by chrl42 » Aug 25th 09 6:26 am

Muo Luni's base is Ben Shan Lu ni, IMO one of best and pricey Zisha. Factory-1 Muo Luni, tho it contains some cobalt, it still some see-thru like crystal quality, and sorta white dots into it.

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This is ROC Muo Luni (my dream to own)

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This is made of high-quality Ben Shan Lu ni..

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by tingjunkie » Aug 25th 09 12:35 pm

Thanks for all that excellent info Charles! I'm always impressed with your knowledge in this area. Does the chop help to narrow this pot down to a certain era, or (as wyardley pointed out) is the chop just too wide spread to rely on for identification?

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by tingjunkie » Aug 25th 09 11:36 pm

Ok. Just got word from the owner. It was purchased in a "thrift shop" perhaps down in Florida around 1995-96, so it was not purchased new. At $34 (after shipping), I had to go ahead and roll the dice and buy it.

As I said, the seller didn't know what it was. She had it listed on ebay as "UNUSUAL Oriental writing on green Jasperware Mini Tpot." Not a mention of yixing anywhere in the description at all. I just stumbled upon it by accident.

I will post better pictures when I get it. I'm hoping (at best) it's Muo Luni of quality equivalent to a couple pots listed at Hou De for $175, and not just cheap Qing Hui Ni. Just judging by the shape and quality of the etching, it doesn't look like a total piece of crap to my untrained eyes, but what the heck do I know? If all else fails, I'm sure I can always put it back on ebay with a proper description and get my $34 back. :lol:

If anyone else has an opinion on this thing, favorable or not, don't hesitate. Here is a slightly better photo of the pots texture. Are those white specs of silica I see, or is it just my imagination trying to make the pot look like the ones on Hou De? :D
texture.JPG
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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by Salsero » Aug 26th 09 1:39 am

I have no idea what it's made of or when it was made, but I would buy it for $34 and feel it was a bargain. It's very lovely.

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by tingjunkie » Aug 26th 09 1:42 am

Salsero wrote:I have no idea what it's made of or when it was made, but I would buy it for $34 and feel it was a bargain. It's very lovely.
Thanks Sal. I actually just heard from the seller that all proceeds are going to charity anyway, so it's win/win as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Yixing Experts: Please identify this pot...

by tingjunkie » Aug 26th 09 4:23 am

wyardley wrote:I think both of those two seals were used at least in overlapping time periods (such as during the 60s-80s). I might have read something about small (maybe higher quality) red clay pots using the 6 character seal, but I could totally be remembering that wrong
Found a small zhuni clay pot from the 60's with a 6 character seal for sale at Nada Cha.

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Re: Yixing Experts: Please identify this pot...

by Tead Off » Aug 26th 09 9:33 am

tingjunkie wrote:
wyardley wrote:I think both of those two seals were used at least in overlapping time periods (such as during the 60s-80s). I might have read something about small (maybe higher quality) red clay pots using the 6 character seal, but I could totally be remembering that wrong
Found a small zhuni clay pot from the 60's with a 6 character seal for sale at Nada Cha.
wyardley is correct. I have a zhuni pot I bought in the 80's with a similar chop. The pot itself could be made earlier, I don't know. But, the clay quality is good on mine.

Image

Mine looks about the same size as Nada's but mine is about 120ml. Maybe his hands are larger than mine. I don't know why he calls this modern zhuni clay. It is modern compared to Qing dynasty, but, I believe modern usually refers to mid 90's and newer. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by TIM » Aug 26th 09 2:50 pm

chrl42 wrote:Muo Luni's base is Ben Shan Lu ni, IMO one of best and pricey Zisha. Factory-1 Muo Luni, tho it contains some cobalt, it still some see-thru like crystal quality, and sorta white dots into it.

Image
This is ROC Muo Luni (my dream to own)
That clay is stunning Chrl42. Do you have pic showing the whole pot and the seal? Cheers. T

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by tingjunkie » Aug 27th 09 12:53 am

I emailed Guang from Hou De, and he was nice enough to take a look at the photos of the pot. He wrote, "The clay looks like muo lu ni, definitely not chin hwei ni." Of course, without being able to handle the pot, he didn't want to speculate about the age or craftsmanship.

chrl42- I believe I read another post of yours in which you mention owning a muo lu ni pot, and that it acquired a nice patina very quickly. How does your pot do with making tea? What kind of tea do you use it for, and what effect does it have on flavor and aroma?

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by oldmanteapot » Aug 27th 09 9:52 am

tingjunkie wrote:I emailed Guang from Hou De, and he was nice enough to take a look at the photos of the pot. He wrote, "The clay looks like muo lu ni, definitely not chin hwei ni." Of course, without being able to handle the pot, he didn't want to speculate about the age or craftsmanship
Guang is right to not speculate about the age or craftsmanship without handling the teapot. It's very difficult to comment on age or craftsmanship based on photos alone. Based on the visual inspection of the seal you attached, it definitely doesn't look like one that could be older than 90s. The strokes in the different characters are different from the ones used from the 60s - 80s. Other than that, it is very difficult to comment on the rest.

Yixing in the 90s is still considered pretty new and recent.

Here's my little baby...

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Cheers!

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by chrl42 » Aug 27th 09 10:47 am

tingjunkie wrote:chrl42- I believe I read another post of yours in which you mention owning a muo lu ni pot, and that it acquired a nice patina very quickly. How does your pot do with making tea? What kind of tea do you use it for, and what effect does it have on flavor and aroma?
I wouldn't see much difference from other clays of this field (Pin Zini, Hei Liao, Xiao Hongni etc), and it breathes too.

I'm currently using it for Sheng..

Trait of Factory-1 clays..it breathes well, gets patina well, lots of em contain chemical oxide powder..ideal for brewing Puerh IMO

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Re: Yixing Folks: Please identify this pot...

by yangshuoren » Aug 29th 09 8:15 am

What a coincidence, I got the teapot with mark of "Meng Chen" as well :lol:


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