Banko and green tea

[coconut]

I'm wondering...does banko clay really make a difference in brewing japanese greens??

[olivierco]

Quite a controversial subject.
I don't believe in magical clay. Some do and prefer the results obtained with a Banko (even if they prefer their gyokuro in porcelain houhin).
I am quite sure that if banko clay had such a wonderful effect, Japanese tradition of green tea would have discarded any other clay.

It is said (according to hojo, one seller) that "banko clay is more porous than other clays and no taste of soil remains when brewing the tea. Moreover the surface area will drastically increase and this will expedite the interaction between water and minerals in clay", in fact that it enhances the water to get a better tea.

I prefer using a good water than trying to enhance its taste.
If you have a good Japanese green, good water (i.e. good to your taste) a nice porcelain houhin or any good kyuusu should be satisfying.

After that it is a matter of aesthetics.

[Intuit]

^ What he said, total agreement.

Ninety percent of the perceptible flavor and aroma is derived from infusion technique, leaf and water quality.

Bankware has limited porosity and therefore, limited ability to physically influence infusion quality, especially for short-duration steep liquor-wall contact time. If these pots had magical qualities to substantially enhance flavor, you would have heard about it from the Japanese long ago.

More attention should be paid to infusion mechanics, obtaining and properly storing good quality leaf, and developing one's palate by practice, practice, practice, and less to hand waving about teapot clay quality, expensive charred bamboo, and rusted iron kettles.

[Maitre_Tea]

tea ware in many ways is like golf clubs...you may have the best golf clubs, balls, equipment, etc....but you're still not going to be as good a golfer as Tiger Woods. In my opinion tea ware is on the end of list of things that make or break a tea. Banko isn't going to make godawful green tea taste better, unless the clay has been laced with some sort of drug or something.

[Intuit]

>unless the clay has been laced with some sort of drug or something.

Huh???

We're not talking about 'godawful' green teas. I think our starting point for discussion is the assumption we are using reasonably fresh or properly stored, moderate or better quality Japanese green tea.

Banko earthenware is regarded as eclectic, somewhat rustic artisan-produced teaware. It's not considered to be 'high-end'.

[Maitre_Tea]

oh, I was just trying to address the larger issue, which is the belief that good clay can make a dramatic improvement on a tea, especially since the OP didn't make a distinction between good or bad quality leaf in the question.

[Tead Off]

Quite a controversial subject.
I don't believe in magical clay. Some do and prefer the results obtained with a Banko (even if they prefer their gyokuro in porcelain houhin).
I am quite sure that if banko clay had such a wonderful effect, Japanese tradition of green tea would have discarded any other clay.

It is said (according to hojo, one seller) that "banko clay is more porous than other clays and no taste of soil remains when brewing the tea. Moreover the surface area will drastically increase and this will expedite the interaction between water and minerals in clay", in fact that it enhances the water to get a better tea.

I prefer using a good water than trying to enhance its taste.
If you have a good Japanese green, good water (i.e. good to your taste) a nice porcelain houhin or any good kyuusu should be satisfying.

In Japan, there is a following for Banko, just like in China, there is a following for Yixing but not everyone brews in them. There is never going to be complete domination by

After that it is a matter of aesthetics.

Not magical, although that is a good poetic notion, but, effective. Also not porous as you seem to think.

Good water is essential. Why? Because it affects the taste of tea.
Good brewing is essential. Why? Because it affects the taste of tea.
Good clay is essential. Why? Because it affects the taste of tea.

You may not be familiar with Chinese teas and how they are brewed in certain vessels and why those vessels are preferred. But, if you sit down and actually do some taste testing, the differences become apparent. The same in Japanese teas.

Aesthetics aside, anyone can do these tests and judge for themselves. Not all of us taste the same so I'm not going to try to convince anyone. There is never going be a total discarding of other teaware. It's not a fair statement.

[Tead Off]

^ What he said, total agreement.

Ninety percent of the perceptible flavor and aroma is derived from infusion technique, leaf and water quality.

Bankware has limited porosity and therefore, limited ability to physically influence infusion quality, especially for short-duration steep liquor-wall contact time. If these pots had magical qualities to substantially enhance flavor, you would have heard about it from the Japanese long ago.

More attention should be paid to infusion mechanics, obtaining and properly storing good quality leaf, and developing one's palate by practice, practice, practice, and less to hand waving about teapot clay quality, expensive charred bamboo, and rusted iron kettles.

You do hear it from the Japanese and that's why every tea seller sells Bankoyaki. But, like everything else, there will never be complete agreement.

Limited porosity doesn't translate into inability to influence. Zhuni is a clay with limited porosity and is considered 'the best' by many. Side by side comparisons will bear out my statements. Have you made any?

Attention to water and brewing are also essential as you say.

Rustic is a term to define aesthetics not quality. There are many fine, fine, fine, Banko teapots that will cost a lot of money.

I'm happy in my world.

[olivierco]

Not magical, although that is a good poetic notion, but, effective. Also not porous as you seem to think.

I used the word "magical" because some Banko aficionados used it. Hojo writes even about the Miracle of Purple Clay. (He even advises to use it for wine...)
As for porosity, I guess Hojo mishandled the concept of surface area.

My answer was more "With Japanese greens, don't put all your expectations on the assumption that clay will give you a better tea, concentrate first on tea, brewing parameters and water. You can achieve excellent results in porcelain or even glass."

Good clay is essential. Why? Because it affects the taste of tea.

I would better say:
"Good (or neutral) clay is essential because bad clay might ruin the taste of tea."

You may not be familiar with Chinese teas and how they are brewed in certain vessels and why those vessels are preferred.

If I am not mistaken Chinese greens are rarely brewed in Yixing (a subject that is highly controversial too). If porcelain and glass brewing seems to be more traditional, there should be a reason.

[Oni]

Banko does affect japanese tea, it reduces bitterness and it is easy to observe, I have brewed the same tea in tokoname and banko and in porcelain, banko was the smoothest and less bitter, after that came the ntokoname, and porcelain was the most neutral to tea, those of you who are skeptical, buy a banko made by Tachi Masaki, so that is the same clay as mine, brew sencha in it for a month or two and compare it with other teaware, it is impossible not to notice the slight diffrence.
I was skeptical about these things when I read them, but now that I own a few diffrent teaware, I have done comparisons, and it is interesting that teaware matters, even the cups affects the perception of taste and aroma, thin porcelain, yixing cup, flat cups tall cups, sniffing cups sets, they make tea taste diffrent, even if you skip or use faircup affects the outcome, I do not use faircup with my tea. My avatar yixing saw Tie Guan Yin all this year, and it had it`s birthday a this month, I brewed some Anxi Rou Gui in it, that is not the wu yi, but it is lightly oxidized, and ball shaped, it tasted good, but the long finish reminded of TGY, it had a strong cognac cherry aroma, that is the aroma that comes from the yixing.

[Tead Off]

Not magical, although that is a good poetic notion, but, effective. Also not porous as you seem to think.

I used the word "magical" because some Banko aficionados used it. Hojo writes even about the Miracle of Purple Clay. (He even advises to use it for wine...)
As for porosity, I guess Hojo mishandled the concept of surface area.

My answer was more "With Japanese greens, don't put all your expectations on the assumption that clay will give you a better tea, concentrate first on tea, brewing parameters and water. You can achieve excellent results in porcelain or even glass."

Good clay is essential. Why? Because it affects the taste of tea.

I would better say:
"Good (or neutral) clay is essential because bad clay might ruin the taste of tea."
Unglazed clay is not neutral, nor is porcelain, to a lesser degree. We are talking about Banko. Is it bad clay?

You may not be familiar with Chinese teas and how they are brewed in certain vessels and why those vessels are preferred.

If I am not mistaken Chinese greens are rarely brewed in Yixing (a subject that is highly controversial too). If porcelain and glass brewing seems to be more traditional, there should be a reason.

I wasn't necessarily referring to Chinese greens but the idea that Yixing does affect the taste of tea and is widely accepted.

As Oni and I have suggested, do the comparison. You can't speak about something that you have not used. Of course you have to start with good tea and water. No argument there and it will help brew better tea no matter what the tea is.

Your next mission is to begin drinking only organic teas and return to what tea should taste like, not what big farming has taught us it should taste like.

[olivierco]

So we quickly reached the bold letters level...

Perhaps my answer was ambiguous.

"Good (or neutral) clay is essential because bad clay might ruin the taste of tea." meant for me that it is essential to use a non bad clay but that using a neutral material should give you excellent results with Japanese greens too.

I should be able to brew any good sencha in porcelain (which is quite neutral as Oni stated) or any good clay without the sencha being too bitter. If I need a special clay for my sencha not to be too bitter, the problem is inherent to the tea, the water or the brewing technique.
Finding the right water and brewing parameters makes more sense to me that changing of teaware. How could one precise item enhance the taste of all kinds of sencha anyway?

I had some sencha from a Banko and didn't noticed any enhancement but it might have been a bad day or not the right Banko. Anyway, feel free to send me the right one to broaden my experience.

[papaya]

I love u so much as much as u love ur tea

[papaya]

Coconut u r the love of my life!!

[coconut]

Papaya, I love you too!