There's this machine out now, by a company called Enagic, and it's supposed to be awsome for tea. Apparently you can adjust the ph of the water to what you want. From what i'm reading it seems like its just a water ionzer (electrolysis of water after being run through some filtration).
After reading around it seems like enagic might be using multi level marketing (8 levels or so) so that is why the price is so high (4k!) compared to other water ionizers that do the same thing like something called a kyk harmony or jupiter Aquarius/Orion.
Someone told me you can brew teas super fast with kangen water too, and repeatedly, but I am kinda skeptical about that....
I have never tried an ionizer but imagine it would be fun to use it to tinker with teas. Has anyone given these things a go?
Re: kangen water
I agree. Improving the water may be one thing ... but how much fast do you really need to brew?
Re: kangen water
This sounds more important for health, than for quality of tea. Acid levels in our body promotes certain malevolent conditions, such as Parkinson's disease. An alkaline diet is encouraged to avoid things like this....so drinking slightly alkaline water has the potential for being kind of a big deal.
Re: kangen water
People really need to stop using teachat as a forum to seek or give out medical advice.jumpin jes... wrote:This sounds more important for health, than for quality of tea. Acid levels in our body promotes certain malevolent conditions, such as Parkinson's disease. An alkaline diet is encouraged to avoid things like this....so drinking slightly alkaline water has the potential for being kind of a big deal.
I understand that tea often plays a large role in various forms of alternative medicine, and therefore there are likely a lot of people interested in such things on here. However, it is highly irresponsible and dangerous for people to be making this sort of unfounded scientific claim, and when I see it, I'm going to start calling people out on it.
It is not possible to significantly alter your body's pH via your diet. Claims to the contrary are based on an extremely flawed understanding of human physiology.
There are no scientific studies which have found any medicinal benefit from alkaline diets.
Don't take my word for it though. Here is an article from Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, and the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute on alkaline diets:
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/healthe ... #MeasurepH
Re: kangen water
Irresponsible and dangerous? 
Anyone that instantly applies ideas posted on the internet without checking into secondary sources of information are irresponsible themselves.
Anyone that instantly applies ideas posted on the internet without checking into secondary sources of information are irresponsible themselves.Re: kangen water
Jes, the burden of proof is you. Aren't you the one pulling stuff off the internet and applying it? Or maybe it is OK if you listen to some crackpot off the internet and then apply it. If alkaline diets actually worked, then doctors would be prescribing people sodium bicarbonate supplements.
Relating to the topic, my local Houston teashop, Path of Tea, has a alkalizer for their water. I think it improves the taste of many teas.
Relating to the topic, my local Houston teashop, Path of Tea, has a alkalizer for their water. I think it improves the taste of many teas.
Dec 6th, '09, 15:08
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Re: kangen water
Chip wrote:... easy TeaFriends ...No need to get "caustic ..."
good joke. Ed: I figured that would come up after my post and while I agree with it, I honestly thought my post would end up as salient as most others. I can't provide sources to back up my information because it is based on a conversation I had a few weeks back with Dr. Ercole Cavalieri, who is the directer of the center for environmental health and toxicology at the university of nebraska medical center.
He gave a fairly remarkable presentation on quinones reacting with DNA to form breast cancer and prostate cancer. This is now off the topic of pH levels in the body, but it's worth noting nonetheless. Everyone has heard of resveratrol (if you havn't, it is an antioxidant found in the skin of grapes) but n-acetylcysteine is not so well known. Both of these, he found, were extremely effective at preventing the formation of estrogen-DNA adducts, therefore preventing cancer from forming. This is kind of old news, but it was great to see a mechanism proposed. If you want I'll try and dig up his actual papers. I don't know if he has published anything on alkalinity or not, as it was a side topic that we discussed after the presentation.
Also, because doctors aren't handing out bicarbonate left and right doesn't mean that it isn't true. There is TONS of research left to be done on the human body. I don't subscribe to the view that our current understanding of the human organism is in full.
Cheers! Imma go make some tea....
Re: kangen water
Margules, and jumpin,
I find myself in appreciation of both of your remarks and intentions, truly.
And I believe you've touched on a difficult topic tangential to the query about the water system - the topic perhaps being 'health fact' vs 'health claim', or 'data' vs 'opinion'.
I find it useful to try to maintain an open minded yet balanced stance between on the one hand what is considered scientific medical fact supported by integrity data and on the other hand medical/health theory/hypothesis neither supported nor refuted by integrity scientific data. I also always remember to take everything I read on the internet, in a blog, in a forum, on wikipedia, with a large grain of salt. Check, check, check, and check again your sources, especially internet (research 101)
I further like to keep in mind that medical science is far from having all the facts, even tho many in the field behave as though they do indeed have all the facts - and I think a certain amount of righteousness helps a doctor manage the burden of responsibility (s)he carries; not to mention, how our existential anxiety (anxiety about our mortality, among other things) can be ameliorated by taking sides with those who espouse righteousness on either side (or with any of those who make claims that make us feel better, whether that be 'rigid reality' or 'fantastical claim').
Margules, your comments remind me of an issue I find problematic with a particular behavior in various scientific discussion - and the behavior is a closed minded scientific stance modeled by the statement, "there isn't any study/data to support that claim" used as though such a statement were data that denies a claim/theroy/hypothesis. I think this behavior is unethical and deplorable!
(And I am not suggesting you are closed minded - I am just reminded of this issue I find with scientific discussion, especially among scientists).
Know too, that I find it equally irksome and deplorable that unsupported and even fantastical claims are made to the vulnerable ; (and BTW, I would argue that unsupported denial to the vulnerable is just as unethical as unsupported claim).
So Margules, I read the link provided (Thank you! ), and I find that the author does not offer data to refute the claim of diet to manage body pH, in fact, the author only offers opinion. I strongly believe that if there is neither data to support nor data to deny a claim, then we act in our collective best interests to keep an open mind in order to pursue what the truth actually is. And, I would prefer that either side state the lack of scientific data as either part of their claim or part of their denial - and to be overt about what is fact and what is opinion.
I think it's a sort of tightrope we must walk between claim and denial - keeping our balance and openness while not falling prematurely or in error to either side.
So, I remain curious about whether there is, or whether you've read a study (or studies) that provide scientific data supporting your claim that body pH cannot be impacted by diet?
Peace.
I find myself in appreciation of both of your remarks and intentions, truly.
And I believe you've touched on a difficult topic tangential to the query about the water system - the topic perhaps being 'health fact' vs 'health claim', or 'data' vs 'opinion'.
I find it useful to try to maintain an open minded yet balanced stance between on the one hand what is considered scientific medical fact supported by integrity data and on the other hand medical/health theory/hypothesis neither supported nor refuted by integrity scientific data. I also always remember to take everything I read on the internet, in a blog, in a forum, on wikipedia, with a large grain of salt. Check, check, check, and check again your sources, especially internet (research 101)
I further like to keep in mind that medical science is far from having all the facts, even tho many in the field behave as though they do indeed have all the facts - and I think a certain amount of righteousness helps a doctor manage the burden of responsibility (s)he carries; not to mention, how our existential anxiety (anxiety about our mortality, among other things) can be ameliorated by taking sides with those who espouse righteousness on either side (or with any of those who make claims that make us feel better, whether that be 'rigid reality' or 'fantastical claim').
Margules, your comments remind me of an issue I find problematic with a particular behavior in various scientific discussion - and the behavior is a closed minded scientific stance modeled by the statement, "there isn't any study/data to support that claim" used as though such a statement were data that denies a claim/theroy/hypothesis. I think this behavior is unethical and deplorable!
(And I am not suggesting you are closed minded - I am just reminded of this issue I find with scientific discussion, especially among scientists).
Know too, that I find it equally irksome and deplorable that unsupported and even fantastical claims are made to the vulnerable
; (and BTW, I would argue that unsupported denial to the vulnerable is just as unethical as unsupported claim). So Margules, I read the link provided (Thank you!
), and I find that the author does not offer data to refute the claim of diet to manage body pH, in fact, the author only offers opinion. I strongly believe that if there is neither data to support nor data to deny a claim, then we act in our collective best interests to keep an open mind in order to pursue what the truth actually is. And, I would prefer that either side state the lack of scientific data as either part of their claim or part of their denial - and to be overt about what is fact and what is opinion.I think it's a sort of tightrope we must walk between claim and denial - keeping our balance and openness while not falling prematurely or in error to either side.
So, I remain curious about whether there is, or whether you've read a study (or studies) that provide scientific data supporting your claim that body pH cannot be impacted by diet?
Peace.
Re: kangen water
*yawn* Snake oil on tap.
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
Alkaline water => dissolved carbonate minerals. Mineral water. Slightly to moderately alkaline.
Soft water => low dissolved minerals, some organic acids if source is surface water. Slightly acidic pH.
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
Alkaline water => dissolved carbonate minerals. Mineral water. Slightly to moderately alkaline.
Soft water => low dissolved minerals, some organic acids if source is surface water. Slightly acidic pH.
Re: kangen water
Thank you for the post Intuit.
I appreciate the wealth of info available at the other end of that link.
My hackles still go up a bit at the tone (evident on that linked page) of righteousness, particularly in stating "...there is no evidence to show". (see my response above). My hackles go back down when so much evidence against the "claim" is then given, and I understand the amygdala stimulated "tone" that arises in response to hucksters praying on the vulnerable, the innocent, and/or the gullible.
Cheers.
ps - part of my "hackled" response is that the "innocent/vulnerable" benefit more from serious, even-toned, and explanatory responses, rather than righteously "toned" responses which can come off as ridiculing and thereby contribute to the problem.
I appreciate the wealth of info available at the other end of that link.
My hackles still go up a bit at the tone (evident on that linked page) of righteousness, particularly in stating "...there is no evidence to show". (see my response above). My hackles go back down when so much evidence against the "claim" is then given, and I understand the amygdala stimulated "tone" that arises in response to hucksters praying on the vulnerable, the innocent, and/or the gullible.
Cheers.
ps - part of my "hackled" response is that the "innocent/vulnerable" benefit more from serious, even-toned, and explanatory responses, rather than righteously "toned" responses which can come off as ridiculing and thereby contribute to the problem.
Re: kangen water
Thanks Intuit for everything you said in your pm - couldn't pm you back for some reason.
Re: kangen water
Interesting stuff all of this, yeah Intuit I tried pm you back too, wouldn't let me, are you just tired of hearing our stupid voices?
Re: kangen water
Those who demand scientific data to back up every posted opinion are usually the same ones that can't brew tea without a thermometer and scale. To each his own.