The Various Shops on Taobao

[bryan_drinks_tea]

Everyone,

I've done some serious research in the past regarding Taobao. The past posts on Taobao never really gave me an answer. My question to all of you:
What shops would you recommend and not recommend and why? I found the one recommended by Hobbes, but I can't remember the original post:

http://cjctea.taobao.com/

The other four were listed by Maitre_Tea on the taobao pu-erh shopping guide post. If any of you have any comments, please post! It is greatly appreciated!

[beachape]

The user feedback on Taobao can be very helpful. Make sure they have lots of reviews. Also you're more likely to get better deals if your seller is near the area where the tea is sourced (ie. yunan in this case). I would recommend just searching through some sites and finding ones you like.

[bryan_drinks_tea]

Good Point, Beach. I've found CJC to be okay on the reliability rating. I will most likely find out it's location in time. Thanks for the insight!

Bryan

[beachape]

Looks like they are from Guangzhou. 13000+ feedback with 99% positive. A good way to search is to enter the characters for puer (普洱), and adjust the search results to rank by seller rating (The Heart) or sale volume (The Shopping Bag). Then make sure the site is dedicated to puer or tea (because you'll get some variety malls with tons of sales...but avoid those).

Once you look at a site, I like to go straight to a complete listing of all their stuff by selecting the "All Products" which is on the left side panel (所有宝贝). Then I sort them by price.

[nicolas]

To answer your question, it really depends on what you are looking for.

For example:
- some dealers specialize in Dayi
- some dealers specialize in Xiaguan
- some dealers specialize in 2009/2010 tea
- some dealers specialize in old tea
- some dealers specialise in privately pressed Laobanzhang, Yiwu, Bulang etc

In addition:
- some dealers guarantee that they do not sell fakes, and will give you your money back
- some dealers will give you 10 times your money back
- some dealers will give you 100 times your money back
- some dealers provide free shipping to China / HK if you order more than a certain amount
- some dealers provide free samples with your order
- some dealers offer VIP / member discounts
- some dealers like to chat and spam you on Aliwangwang (Taobao's version of Instant Messenger) and you can use the opportunity to negotiate discounts
- some dealers are prepared to ship directly overseas if you ask
- some dealers can speak good English
- some dealers accept VISA

Given the lack of ability to inspect merchandise before purchase, consumers are at higher risk of fraud on the part of the merchant than in a physical store. I have bought fakes from Taobao before so the most important criteria for me is the "no fake" guarantee. One of these dealers which I can recommend for Dayi tea is Zhi Ming Du.

Before buying from an online dealer, evaluate the webstore by considering issues such as: the professionalism and user-friendliness of the site; whether or not the company lists a telephone number and/or street address along with e-contact information; whether a fair and reasonable refund and return policy is clearly stated; and whether there are hidden price inflators, such as excessive shipping and handling charges.

Another point to note that it's not necessarily best to purchase from Kunming dealers. I think the size of the tea markets in China from largest to smallest is as follows (but would be grateful if someone could confirm):
- Guangzhou Tea Market
- KunmingTea Market
- Beijing (Maliandao) Tea Market

As such, I find that Guangzhou dealers offer the most competitive pricing and service (one of the fake Menghai tea I bought was from a Beijing Taobao dealer).

This does not include smaller tea markets from other parts of China like Shenzhen, Tianjin, Qingdao, Chengdu etc.

The way I normally buy tea is to type the name of the tea in the Taobao search engine and then compare which dealer is best. It's just like shopping on Ebay or Amazon. For example, if you were looking for 7572 tea, then its:

http://search.taobao.com/search?shopf=newsearch&q=7572

However, if your question is really about specific recommendations of online dealers, then my suggestion is not to stick to any particular dealer, because different dealers have different offers and prices and there is no particular "super dealer" which we all flock to. In other words, loyalty does not run deep in the tea world and a fool and his money are soon parted.

I have a small list of online dealers on my site which I update from time to time after I have purchased tea from them.

PM me if you have specific questions about a Taobao store or reading Chinese words.

Hope this helps.

[Zpro]

WOW!
Thanks so much for the information and links Nicolas, very, very useful indeed!! I have lots of reading and learning to do now that i know you have a website.

All i have to do now is start learning how to read such a different language... nah, too lazy haha.

Zach

P.S: I have yet to figure out if it is cheaper to pay the international shipping to Canada and service fees from a taobao agent or to buy from a stand alone business such as yunnan sourcing or hou de... anyone have an idea?

[beachape]

Nicolas,

Do you prefer to buy from Guangzhou for new tea as well? My quick impression was that Kunming stuff was cheaper for new season, but the older stuff was cheaper at Guangzhou stores. I like the stores you have on your site. Also, If you happen to drink green teas, do you ever buy from a particular seller on taobao? Thanks

[nicolas]

Nicolas,

Do you prefer to buy from Guangzhou for new tea as well? My quick impression was that Kunming stuff was cheaper for new season, but the older stuff was cheaper at Guangzhou stores. I like the stores you have on your site. Also, If you happen to drink green teas, do you ever buy from a particular seller on taobao? Thanks

I had the same impression before I visited the Kunming and Guangzhou markets. I initially thought that the nearer you are to the puerh bushes and trees, the cheaper the tea, the wider the range and the better the stock. Well in this day and age where we no longer use horses to transport our tea, distance and travelling time are not limiting factors. The key factor is demand. And money. The tea will flow to where the money is.

Guangzhou, China


Hong Kong, China


Within China, expensive or branded Puerh tea is primarily purchased by customers in Guangzhou, Hong Kong and to a lesser extent, Beijing. Orders from the rest of the world are placed in Guangzhou. The Guangzhou tea market and the Annual Guangzhou Tea Expo are the largest in the country.

When I was searching for 2009 7542 901 Dayi tea in Kunming last year, a number of Kunming Dayi authorised dealers told me they had very early on already sold boxes to Guangzhou wholesalers for RMB1400 to 1600 each. When I visited Guangzhou, the 7542s were very available and on public display on the shopfloors for RMB2500 to 2800 each. So the Guangzhou dealers snapped up the tea, not to drink, not to satisfy existing customers, but to deprive the market of supply so they could flip them for a profit, like a 2008 vintage of Lafite Rothschild.

Guangzhou tea dealer (or hoarder)










Pictures courtesy of Zhi Ming Du

However, if you are a retail customer you will only be buying one or two cakes or one tong at the most, and so the primary consideration will not be about how many boxes you can secure in Yunnan before the speculators get to them (for which you will have to queue and squat outside the gates of the Menghai factory in April each year).

For most of us the primary considerations will be whether the seller has a clearly laid out Taobao webstore with transparent refund policies, a variety of stock and tea types so you can combine orders, competitive pricing, can communicate in English, can accept VISA or Paypal and is used to dealing with international customers.

In each case Guangzhou fits the bill. Yunnan may win if you are interested in taking pictures of bushes, visiting an old friend or looking for wild and/or private pressed tea, but I suspect this is not the OPs objective and such tea would be extremely unwise to online shop for.

[beachape]

Good Point. Are you sure those aren't pictures of your personal storage room?