Some interesting comments about shu from Cloud

[apache]

I saw some interesting comments about shu from Cloud, as I don't think I would do justice trying to translate his entire comments, I would only mention some of his key points which he wrote in this forum:

http://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.ph ... 3D1&page=2

He was answering someone who experience sour taste in a shu.

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Shu is much cheaper than aged sheng as there is no storage cost involve, and this is good for beginner to learn about pu. However, there is always differences in term of quality between aged sheng and shu.

The disadvantages of shu:
1. lack activity (apache: the oomph you feel in sheng)
2. can have off taste
3. lack endurance (apache: doesn't last many steeps)

The advantages of shu:
1. taste sweet
2. have substances (apache: most young sheng have to water down)
3. smooth
4. relatively cheap or quality to price ratio is high (apache: this depends on how you judge a tea is good)

It should not have sour taste. The sour taste could be due to some thing gone wrong in the fermentation process.

Even the fermentation process has reached a certain standard in the present day, each batch of modern day Menghai Dayi shu tastes different.
Why?
There is certain randomness in the fermentation process, if the process went well, that batch of shu would taste nice. If something went slightly wrong, that batch would not taste good.

When you buy tea, it's all about luck. One better samples it, only buy it if it tastes good.

Cloud has bought tea for many years, it is not there aren't any good shu, but it difficult to find one. In the past, more than 10 years ago, Cloud has bought some shu from the 80's which cost about a few hundred HK$, if any thing didn't taste right then, even after 20 years of aging still doesn't taste nice.

Now why "Purple Sky" 8592 shu from early 90s such a hot property? This batch shu with "Purple Sky" character taste rather nice, but several thousand HK$ for a shu cake is not really worth it. (apache: just for reference, x-rate at the moment is US $1: HK$ 7.78, UK£1: HK$ 12.64, €1: HK$ 10.61)

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Well, I thought only people living outside the Far East have to pay tuition fee when it come to pu, but this clearly shows it is not the case.
As estate agent put it when buying a house: location, location, location;
when one buy pu, it's sampling, sampling sampling!

[auhckw]

I just had 5 shu (out of 19 tea) today...

Dayi 2009 - 7572 Ripe Puerh
Dayi 2010 - 70th Ripe Puerh
Tacha 2007 - Yue Chen Yue Xiang Ripe Puerh (Longan Xiang)
Tacha 2007 - Nuer Ripe Puerh (Her Xiang - Lotus)
Tacha 2005 - Gong Ting Ripe Puerh (Nai Xiang - Milk)

I have no problem with any of it. All goes well easily... but one has to know shu will always be shu. It has less character and kick compared to sheng.

Aged sheng is definitely better and taste more natural compared to shu which is designed to copy it.

[apache]

Here I'm not trying to say which is better, sheng or shu, or what the different between them. And I think that discussion has done to death else where. But I though what Cloud wrote about shu is interesting.

[shah82]

I'm having Dayi sticker price shock. I want to buy shu that's already ready or close to it to drink (and if it's not that, then one of those old-style full leaf things that takes as long as sheng to mature). However, $30+ for shu is pretty much unconscionable, so I pretty much will have to buy a tong of very new shu and then do my best to forget it for awhile. That's annoying. It's one thing to wake for sheng to age, it's another thing when you wanna diet cola and still have to wait for the wo dui smell to go away.

[Milhouse]

I don't see $30+ for a cake of ready to drink shu such a high price to pay. I figure if I'm drinking 5g everyday that only adds up to $150-250/yr. Its still under a $1/day. I always compare the cost of things i want to buy to the price of a drink @ a bar. Even at $50 cake = $20/month for tea vs. 4 beers = $20+ or 4 cocktails = $35+. Skip going out one time a month, toss the money in a jar, wait 3 months and buy a 6 month shu supply.

For me i consider a cake expensive if it cost $30+ brand new and i still have to wait a few years to enjoy it. My only complaint would be cost of shipping, i hate paying for that.

[auhckw]

Slightly a bit off topic... and since we are talking about price...

Yesterday I saw another Dayi pu 2008... when it is new, someone bought it for RM20/USD6.4 (in bulk). The price now is RM68/USD21.9 list price.

I didn't ask how much discount I can get, but this is too much too. 200% and only 2 years+

It sure feels good to own it when it is brand new and see the price went up high now... but it sure feels not good to buy it now at a 200% markup for the raw material it is to begin with...

[shah82]

Simply put, you can buy decent sheng for $30. With a little shopping, *really* decent drink-it-now sheng. Much more than that, in the $35-$40 range, you *really* can get good sheng.

Lastly, the raw materials of most shu just isn't especially good leaf, no matter how good the processing.

Shu is really great for casual drinking, if you're not someone who's a bitter-roughaphobe...

[TomVerlain]

I did a quick internet search and saw some Dayi 7262 from 2009 for $17.00 a cake. I think thats a pretty good tea, and a pretty good deal, and certainly drinkable. I have the 2008, which I bought for $13.80 when it came out, and just sampled some last week. While it does not compete for my affection for 1990's cakes, it is pleasant and an enjoyable tea.

I believe these are made from already aged leaves, and then go through the fermentation process and then stored a bit, so the tea, by the time you get it, is fairly smooth and drinkable. Certainly some more age on top of that does help, but I have never had "fishy" menghai shu.

Sometimes I really can't see why so many people love raw sheng of no age. I really can't drink it except occaisonally, and without shu, I would drink a lot less puerh. Johnnie Walker Red is isn't a substitute for Blue, but it is affordable, quality and still eminently drinakable.

[Milhouse]

Not sure why sheng was even brought up since this original post was about the cost of shu. Its pretty pointless to compare prices of sheng vs. shu since theyre totally different. Why buy well aged pu when you can buy a tong of amazing new RTD sheng for the same price.....because theyre not the same thing.

I too wonder sometimes why so many people here love brand new sheng. I'm sure they're are plenty of great ones out there but i can't imagine siting down every morning with a cup of 09 big factory sheng.

[shah82]

Try some of Nada's Bada. Big Factory sheng is essentially absent from my collection, other than 2001 dayi, and I just got that. I'm going to get Yongde Organic '09s for my regular tong o' shu...maybe. Something cheap that I can just reach for without accounting how much I have left.

[apache]

I don't see $30+ for a cake of ready to drink shu such a high price to pay. I figure if I'm drinking 5g everyday that only adds up to $150-250/yr. Its still under a $1/day. I always compare the cost of things i want to buy to the price of a drink @ a bar. Even at $50 cake = $20/month for tea vs. 4 beers = $20+ or 4 cocktails = $35+. Skip going out one time a month, toss the money in a jar, wait 3 months and buy a 6 month shu supply.

For me i consider a cake expensive if it cost $30+ brand new and i still have to wait a few years to enjoy it. My only complaint would be cost of shipping, i hate paying for that.

My thinking is the same as you, I count the cost per session than the whole cake. I don't mind paying permium price as long as the quality does match up with that.

[apache]

Simply put, you can buy decent sheng for $30. With a little shopping, *really* decent drink-it-now sheng. Much more than that, in the $35-$40 range, you *really* can get good sheng.

Lastly, the raw materials of most shu just isn't especially good leaf, no matter how good the processing.

Shu is really great for casual drinking, if you're not someone who's a bitter-roughaphobe...

Yes, any decent drink now sheng has to use a few hundred years old tree material which is not cheap. As shu such a haphazard process, I can't see anyone would take the risk use premium materal in shu.

[apache]

Johnnie Walker Red is isn't a substitute for Blue, but it is affordable, quality and still eminently drinakable.

You haven't tried single malt yet, have you?

[apache]

Not sure why sheng was even brought up since this original post was about the cost of shu. Its pretty pointless to compare prices of sheng vs. shu since theyre totally different. Why buy well aged pu when you can buy a tong of amazing new RTD sheng for the same price.....because theyre not the same thing.

I too wonder sometimes why so many people here love brand new sheng. I'm sure they're are plenty of great ones out there but i can't imagine siting down every morning with a cup of 09 big factory sheng.

Actually, I wasn't thinking about the price of shu, it's more about quality of shu vary from batch to batch even from the same year same factory. I wasn't aware of that before I read Cloud comment, I was thinking the shu process just like any standard industrial process, one end is the raw materal then the same product come out the other end.

Me too, can't drink modern big factory sheng everyday, it certainly would kill me!

[entropyembrace]

I too wonder sometimes why so many people here love brand new sheng. I'm sure they're are plenty of great ones out there but i can't imagine siting down every morning with a cup of 09 big factory sheng.

We drink it because we like it

Personally I´d rather drink a 09 big factory sheng like a 7542 than a 09 big factory shu like 7572. Neither cake is made from great material, but they´re developed for different tastes.