A few years ago I purchased several teapots for various teas. One for oolong, one for sheng pu, one for shu pu, and two for black teas. The oolong one I got from a dealer called "Yunnan Sourcing Inc" on ebay that has since disappeared from ebay. Possibly the same Yunnan Sourcing as the websites. It cost me between $20 and $30 and makes a very nice ringing noise when the lid taps the pot. It was their cheapest and smallest pot at the time. It's been seasoned with oolong tea, mostly TGY, for the last 6 years and has a nice patina on it.
The other 4 however I bought from an ebayer in Texas (link). Not long after purchasing the oolong one. Each one cost me between $5 and $15 and they all make a dull clank noise when the lid taps the pot. They're also dull and not "shiny" like the oolong one. At the time I didn't think anything of it, but after educating myself a bit I believe these are all cheap knock-offs. Possibly not even zisha clay or really cheapo zisha clay.
Just curious what others think of these cheaper pots. Are they okay to continue using or should I throw them out and invest in new ones?
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
In my very limited experience with yixing, I've found that you typically get what you pay for. As far as what you should do ... it depends on your budget and how much you're looking to put towards this "hobby". For me, I decided to spend more for higher quality pots, but that's just me.
By the way, I have no experience or firsthand knowledge with any of the pots you are referring to ... just giving you my philosophy on buying yixing wares.
By the way, I have no experience or firsthand knowledge with any of the pots you are referring to ... just giving you my philosophy on buying yixing wares.
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Correction, I just tested the sound the pots make when I tap the lid to them. They don't make a dull clank. They make a clinky noise like the oolong pot does.
They're very thickly made compared to the oolong pot so perhaps it is cheaper clay. The oolong pot is made much thinner.
Also, they don't have a ball filter inside them at the spout. Just 5 holes in the pot wall. I know this adds extra cost. My oolong pot has a ball filter.
Yunnan Sourcing (both US and China sites) has some nice yixing pots that aren't too pricey. The ones made from certain makers cost double the normal cost, though.
If I do get new pots I'll probably want them 130ml and smaller. I'm the only one here that drinks tea.
I need to find a list of zisha clays and what quality they are.
They're very thickly made compared to the oolong pot so perhaps it is cheaper clay. The oolong pot is made much thinner.
Also, they don't have a ball filter inside them at the spout. Just 5 holes in the pot wall. I know this adds extra cost. My oolong pot has a ball filter.
Yunnan Sourcing (both US and China sites) has some nice yixing pots that aren't too pricey. The ones made from certain makers cost double the normal cost, though.
If I do get new pots I'll probably want them 130ml and smaller. I'm the only one here that drinks tea.
I need to find a list of zisha clays and what quality they are.
Aug 11th, '13, 20:59
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
If you like the tea you brewed in them, keeping the cheap pots means you can take your time finding just the right 'genuine' yixing for you.
I bought a series of ultra-cheap pots when I was getting started with new teas--I think of them as pots made by someone who once saw a genuine yixing--and the cheapest of them (literally, at $5.99), does a wonderful job with Dan Cong Oolongs. I've never done a head-to-head with the Chao Zhou pot that I bought from Tea Habitat, but it does a nice job as a 'second string' pot at the office.
What I have actually gotten rid of are a few of the then-pricier ($12-$30) pots I first bought, because of poor workmanship or design (one that cracked spontaneously in ordinary use, one that kept shedding something waxy from the outside after several attempts to really clean it off) or sizes that were just too big.
I bought a series of ultra-cheap pots when I was getting started with new teas--I think of them as pots made by someone who once saw a genuine yixing--and the cheapest of them (literally, at $5.99), does a wonderful job with Dan Cong Oolongs. I've never done a head-to-head with the Chao Zhou pot that I bought from Tea Habitat, but it does a nice job as a 'second string' pot at the office.
What I have actually gotten rid of are a few of the then-pricier ($12-$30) pots I first bought, because of poor workmanship or design (one that cracked spontaneously in ordinary use, one that kept shedding something waxy from the outside after several attempts to really clean it off) or sizes that were just too big.
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Price and quality aren't always symmetric while there's certainly a connection.
However, the days Yixing got its fame isn't equivalent to today's environment.
The experts know its date by looking at its clay..which means old days making of Yixing teapot was more organized, regardless of its quality or clay, carving or seals. The same shouldn't be applied to today's so you need to search a lot, look a lot.
One thing you can do is, you look for names.
Famous masters or studios (like Factory 1, Huang Long Yuan or Jing Dian Tao Fang (for commercial pots)
Looking for good seller is another option....selling Yixing or Puerh, isn't like selling clothes..many famous Yixing sellers are connected to museums or auctions....it's not something to reach in days or months.
Above 2 options are quicker ways..another way is you train your eyes by yourself...not really recommended
However, the days Yixing got its fame isn't equivalent to today's environment.
The experts know its date by looking at its clay..which means old days making of Yixing teapot was more organized, regardless of its quality or clay, carving or seals. The same shouldn't be applied to today's so you need to search a lot, look a lot.
One thing you can do is, you look for names.
Famous masters or studios (like Factory 1, Huang Long Yuan or Jing Dian Tao Fang (for commercial pots)
Looking for good seller is another option....selling Yixing or Puerh, isn't like selling clothes..many famous Yixing sellers are connected to museums or auctions....it's not something to reach in days or months.
Above 2 options are quicker ways..another way is you train your eyes by yourself...not really recommended
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Shedding waxy stuff? Gross. These pots are cheap but they never did anything weird or make me sick or anything drinking the tea made from them.debunix wrote:What I have actually gotten rid of are a few of the then-pricier ($12-$30) pots I first bought, because of poor workmanship or design (one that cracked spontaneously in ordinary use, one that kept shedding something waxy from the outside after several attempts to really clean it off) or sizes that were just too big.
Two of the pots I've stopped using because the pour spouts take way too long to pour the tea out. One has a tiny goose-neck like spout and takes a minute to pour out. I do like the looks of it and will probably use it for decoration. Maybe get some teapot stands for all my pots when I'm not using them.
Seems Zhu Ni (Zhusha?) clay pots are the most sought after. Every time I see one it costs much more than the other pots. Though I personally like the yellow colored clay pots. I forget what the clay is called but my oolong pot is made from that clay. The patina on it has darkened it a lot so it's not quite as yellow as it used to be.
Yunnan Sourcing has some much cheaper pots so I may replace my pu and black tea pots with those. Cheap being around $30-60. Quite a bit more than what I paid for my current pots.
Aug 12th, '13, 08:59
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Honestly speaking, do you really think you can buy a Yixing clay teapot for a few dollars? If you were lucky, you have bought some teapots composed by a mixture of modern clay, surely you did not purchase teapots composed by Zi ni, Zhu Ni or Duan Ni clay, which costs at least a couple of hundred dollars, at least.
If you really want a good teapot, do not be hasty in buying economic teapots of the value of a few tens of dollars. Instead, I advise you to save some money, create your own budget to dedicate to the purchase of teapots for which it really worth buying, teapots that can offer you a good cup of tea now, as in 30 years.
If you really want a good teapot, do not be hasty in buying economic teapots of the value of a few tens of dollars. Instead, I advise you to save some money, create your own budget to dedicate to the purchase of teapots for which it really worth buying, teapots that can offer you a good cup of tea now, as in 30 years.
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Hello William, thanks for your opinion.
Since I'm starting to look out for some decent teapots, especially for Shu PU and Phoenix Oolongs, I've been reading topics concerning this subject. At present I'm using glazed pots for everything, but I'd like to switch to something more High-End. And one of the main questions was: How much do I need to spend to get a decent Yixing teapot?
If you say, an authentic, well-made pot costs at least several hundred dollars, thats frightening
I was hoping to afford two or three decent pots for, maybe, 100€ per piece (thats about 130 $ at present).
I saw that renowned tea vendors like Tea Habitat, Tea Hong or Yunnan Sourcing got pots in that price class, labelled as "Yixing Pots". Does that mean I should refrain from that kind of pot because they're not really good, being to cheap?
Thanks a lot for info!
Since I'm starting to look out for some decent teapots, especially for Shu PU and Phoenix Oolongs, I've been reading topics concerning this subject. At present I'm using glazed pots for everything, but I'd like to switch to something more High-End. And one of the main questions was: How much do I need to spend to get a decent Yixing teapot?
If you say, an authentic, well-made pot costs at least several hundred dollars, thats frightening
I was hoping to afford two or three decent pots for, maybe, 100€ per piece (thats about 130 $ at present).I saw that renowned tea vendors like Tea Habitat, Tea Hong or Yunnan Sourcing got pots in that price class, labelled as "Yixing Pots". Does that mean I should refrain from that kind of pot because they're not really good, being to cheap?
Thanks a lot for info!
Dec 30th, '13, 17:27
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Hi Miig,miig wrote:Hello William, thanks for your opinion.
Since I'm starting to look out for some decent teapots, especially for Shu PU and Phoenix Oolongs, I've been reading topics concerning this subject. At present I'm using glazed pots for everything, but I'd like to switch to something more High-End. And one of the main questions was: How much do I need to spend to get a decent Yixing teapot?
If you say, an authentic, well-made pot costs at least several hundred dollars, thats frightening
I saw that renowned tea vendors like Tea Habitat, Tea Hong or Yunnan Sourcing got pots in that price class, labelled as "Yixing Pots". Does that mean I should refrain from that kind of pot because they're not really good, being to cheap?
Thanks a lot for info!
Generally, Yi Xing teapots made completely by hand, with good clay and possibly aged, costs 100/200 dollars and up, from what I've read in recent months.
If I can recommend a vendor from whom I purchased recently, that is http://www.essenceoftea.com, in my opinion the best choice within Europe (UK), and one of the most trusted vendors that may exist.
My first real Yi Xing teapot I bought from him, surely there are other good sellers, but by the time I had the pleasure to buy only from him for the moment.
Consider that I'm just a beginner in this noble art (I only own one Yi Xing teapot), accordingly I advise you to wait for suggestions from people much more experienced than me
!
Dec 30th, '13, 18:11
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Having recently returned from being hosted by the Yixing government and Wuxi Institute ot Technology and Arts in doing a presentation on American ceramics and Ameriocan ceramic arts education there in Yixing, I would like to reinforce the thought that the good handmade pots are VERY expensive.
Unless you are in Yixing and can walk the back streets and know what to look for, (meaning finding a "deal" direct from a lesser known potter)...... $100 won't buy you much.
Save you pennies. A couple hundred US dollars is the very BOTTOM of the Yixing handmade heap.
I posted some info on pots there somewhere else in the forums here... but the pots that I (as a potter) were looking at were in the thousands each. And they were not the really good stuff, they were the ones that I felt would be the ones that I MIGHT ever want to have (if I were much richer than I am) based on the craftsmanship and the clays.
Top end for stuff I saw was about $19,000.00 each. Yeah... the decimal point is in the right place. Contemporary, living artist, not historical stuff.
If you were willing to spend about $500.00, I MIGHT be able to connect you directly (or through an intermediary friend) to a mid-career woman ceramic artist in Yixing who might be able to sell directly to you. But that is the LOW end of her pricing. Nice stuff, nice lady.
best,
.....................john
Unless you are in Yixing and can walk the back streets and know what to look for, (meaning finding a "deal" direct from a lesser known potter)...... $100 won't buy you much.
Save you pennies. A couple hundred US dollars is the very BOTTOM of the Yixing handmade heap.
I posted some info on pots there somewhere else in the forums here... but the pots that I (as a potter) were looking at were in the thousands each. And they were not the really good stuff, they were the ones that I felt would be the ones that I MIGHT ever want to have (if I were much richer than I am) based on the craftsmanship and the clays.
Top end for stuff I saw was about $19,000.00 each. Yeah... the decimal point is in the right place. Contemporary, living artist, not historical stuff.
If you were willing to spend about $500.00, I MIGHT be able to connect you directly (or through an intermediary friend) to a mid-career woman ceramic artist in Yixing who might be able to sell directly to you. But that is the LOW end of her pricing. Nice stuff, nice lady.
best,
.....................john
Dec 30th, '13, 18:28
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
If you're after artisan fully hand made pots, then yeah. But half-handmade pots using molds will not cost several hundred dollars. Some of the factory pots from the 90s don't require several hundred dollars.
Try OriginTea or SampleTea for examples.
Try OriginTea or SampleTea for examples.
Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
Thank you very much for your quick replies. Maybe I should specify what I'm looking for.
I'm looking for a small number of teapots (in the long run up to five, but for now: one or two) that will realize more of the potential that my favorite teas have, than is possible with glazed pots.
Of course it is nice if they also have artistic value and I wouldn't want something totally ugly or badly-done, but I'm not at all buying for collection's sake. I want a pot that will work really well as a teapot, not as a piece of art. (I know I don't want to afford the latter
)
I want to use these guys for decades, and if they don't improve my tea experience, I can as well stick with my glazed pots in the first place, so no point in buying cheap.
So, if it is necessary to spend 500$ for a real step-up, I will eventually do that. But do I have to? Or can I get a pot with les aesthetic value and less craftsmanship, but with roughtly the same tea-brewing qualities, for significantly less money?
I'm looking for a small number of teapots (in the long run up to five, but for now: one or two) that will realize more of the potential that my favorite teas have, than is possible with glazed pots.
Of course it is nice if they also have artistic value and I wouldn't want something totally ugly or badly-done, but I'm not at all buying for collection's sake. I want a pot that will work really well as a teapot, not as a piece of art. (I know I don't want to afford the latter
)I want to use these guys for decades, and if they don't improve my tea experience, I can as well stick with my glazed pots in the first place, so no point in buying cheap.
So, if it is necessary to spend 500$ for a real step-up, I will eventually do that. But do I have to? Or can I get a pot with les aesthetic value and less craftsmanship, but with roughtly the same tea-brewing qualities, for significantly less money?
Last edited by miig on Dec 30th, '13, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
Dec 30th, '13, 19:38
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Re: Bad Yixing Teapots?
OK, here are my two cents on the subject:
You do not need a Lamborghini to drive from A to B, just as you do not need an Yixing teapot that costs tens of thousands of dollars to make a cup of decent tea. It might yield better results overall but eventually a really decent teapot for, say 80 - 150 dollars will prove to be very good for everyday use (similar to a VW Golf to stay with the car analogy) and it is questionable whether the quality is always in line with the additional expense.
What you DO NOT want to are buy lots of inexpensive teapots that will ruin your tea.
My recommendation based on personal experience is to go for decent quality affordable teapots from, for example
Life in Teacup (currently with some nice factory #1 pots on ebay as well but they are unsurprisingly more costly),
Wisdom China on ebay (again: do NOT go for the cheapest option!)
and Essence of Tea as William already said.
My personal suggestion is to stick to one or two teapots of really good quality for each type of tea you want to make.
Also please do not expect miracles to happen to your tea
The 440 GBP teapots from EoT outperform just about anything but if you put cheap tea in, it will never taste like expensive tea, so keep a bit of your budget aside to purchase some good tea to go with the good pot.
You do not need a Lamborghini to drive from A to B, just as you do not need an Yixing teapot that costs tens of thousands of dollars to make a cup of decent tea. It might yield better results overall but eventually a really decent teapot for, say 80 - 150 dollars will prove to be very good for everyday use (similar to a VW Golf to stay with the car analogy) and it is questionable whether the quality is always in line with the additional expense.
What you DO NOT want to are buy lots of inexpensive teapots that will ruin your tea.
My recommendation based on personal experience is to go for decent quality affordable teapots from, for example
Life in Teacup (currently with some nice factory #1 pots on ebay as well but they are unsurprisingly more costly),
Wisdom China on ebay (again: do NOT go for the cheapest option!)
and Essence of Tea as William already said.
My personal suggestion is to stick to one or two teapots of really good quality for each type of tea you want to make.
Also please do not expect miracles to happen to your tea
The 440 GBP teapots from EoT outperform just about anything but if you put cheap tea in, it will never taste like expensive tea, so keep a bit of your budget aside to purchase some good tea to go with the good pot.