New Pot! Duan Ni or not?

[VanFersen]

Jeez, in some way I got really lucky with my last yixing teapot orders but there was one certain pot I always wanted and now I own it. But since I bought it I never used it. Yesterday after I cleaned it the seconds time with a lot of hot nearly boiled water and a soft towel to rub the inside clean I prepared a lishan white tea in it.

But it was strange because it wasn't the first time I drunk that tea but this time after the third infusion I felt some kind of sick like when I stood up I got extremely dizzy and then also shaky like my nerves were a little overburdened. Normally I only get such a feeling with very high caffeine types drunk on an empty stomach. And this type of tea normally doesn't contain that much of caffeine anyways. So I thought maybe is it just a "condition based on this particular day" or is it the teapot?

So I visited the page of the teapot again I tried to find out as much as I can. But google translate isn't the best. Generally said the seller has a quite good reputation but some comments on exactly this teapot made me wonder.

Most of the buyers comments are quite positive but the newest one and another one proclaimed the same problems. They said "That the teapot has an unhomogeneous appearance in its color"

The answer of the seller was quite a strange one: "There was no chemical substance used to color the clay." Then he try to justify himself: "It is not possible that everything can be perfect all the time. That the customers always want it cheaper and cheaper and to make that possible he can't work like he would like to. And the customer shouldn't compare apples with pears."

So I don't really know what I should think about that. Here is the site:

http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a2 ... 7168932917

So back to my problem. First of all I don't see any strange appearance in its color. There are many Duan Ni types and this one could be a sesame duan ni but I am not sure. But it doesn't look suspicious to me. And the smell is also very neutral and clean. No sign of a chemical or some kind of suspicious scent inside the teapot. Only one thing was odd.

When I received the teapot and checked it the first time I noticed a lot of shimmering stuff on the bottom of the pot like very fine splinter of glass or better to compare it to trashing from used sandpapers. And also on the inside all around the lid edge there was a lot of these remains. So I needed to clean it a lot to get that all out. But that shouldn't cause the problems if they are really from the pot.

Maybe they needed to correct something after they fired it. I don't know. But as you can see in the pictures if you look closely there are still some sparkling spots inside the clay but maybe that's just the stoneware/clay maybe minerals. So what do you say? If you read what I wrote, checked the page and my pictures: Is this some type of Duan Ni or not? And if my condition yesterday was caused by that pot what could have caused it?

[chrl42]

It says Ben Shan Lv Ni, not Duan Ni.

BSLV is one of Duan Ni types, the purest Duan Ni you can imagine. It's of the most expensive Yixing clay, over Zhuni.

3~400rmb range is pretty a commercial route, a little lower to claim to be BSLV. Nowadays ok BSLV costs over 200rmb per 500g, for the clay solely. 500g you can make one small pot, that's it. And high-end BSLV is not open to market, they are stored and shared among potters.

Whatever it's BSLN or Duan Ni, it looks modern clay, quality looks ok to me. Peace.

[VanFersen]

Thank you that's already more information that I found out with stupid google translate . So it is benshan lv ni. Nice. And you are quite sure it is the real thing so not artificial crap? You said it is modern that means not long stored high quality clay so in fact new scooped one? Is that correct?

[chrl42]

Thank you that's already more information that I found out with stupid google translate . So it is benshan lv ni. Nice. And you are quite sure it is the real thing so not artificial crap? You said it is modern that means not long stored high quality clay so in fact new scooped one? Is that correct?

I don't think it's artificial something, the clay looks natural clay to me.

But whether it's genuine Ben Shan or not is still debatable...

Because Ben Shan Lv Ni is said to be those famous high-quality clay, very few potters use high-end clays to make commercial pots, it's not only for money and profit reasons but because commercial pot collectors usually don't understand the quality of the clay. In this case, using those clays for commercial pots can be 'waste', since there's no really trustful academic sources or studies on Yixings in China.

I'd say for the price you've paid, it's a good deal, but if you expect something way over the price, it' can be a different topic.


Traditional Ben Shan (after PRC) mines are no.4 mine, no.5 mine and Taixi. But most of affordable Ben Shan pots are made of Taixi clays. I don't think that pot should belong above three mines, probably other nearby area of Yixing

[VanFersen]

Ah ok I think I understand. So it is benshan lv ni but most likely not from a deep centered mine or not directly centered in Yixing area. Right?

And thank you

[chrl42]

Ah ok I think I understand. So it is benshan lv ni but most likely not from a deep centered mine or not directly centered in Yixing area. Right?

And thank you

Close.

What I mean is there are the mines and mountains of Yixing clay, the high-quality ones. Those places were mined since Ming dynasty up to 90s.

Most of the areas are depleted, the most recent mines were no.4 (deep inside), no.5 (middle) and Taixi (strip mine), no.4~no.5 mines were depleted during 7~80s and Taixi in 90s.

Most of Yixing clay on the market, is not from those mines strictly speaking. To rival those old clays and to sell, many ingredients (some even can be dangerous) are added these days. Peace.

[VanFersen]

Oh man... first I was reassured because of your words and now because of the "can be really dangerous" I am concerned about it again. So if most of the stuff out there isn't real yixing anymore some even dangerous and all the old evidences to proof if the clay is real or not are nowadays nullified because they are getting better and better in faking then how is it even possible to buy the real thing anymore and not a bunch of maybe poisoned crap stuff?

Oh man... this is quite depressing. And what are those ingredients which can be dangerous?

[chrl42]

Oh man... first I was reassured because of your words and now because of the "can be really dangerous" I am concerned about it again. So if most of the stuff out there isn't real yixing anymore some even dangerous and all the old evidences to proof if the clay is real or not are nowadays nullified because they are getting better and better in faking then how is it even possible to buy the real thing anymore and not a bunch of maybe poisoned crap stuff?

Oh man... this is quite depressing. And what are those ingredients which can be dangerous?

No, most of the clay out there are safe. You missed my word

Just try to avoid that is *too* green, blue, red or black. Those are mixed with cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide.

Adding ingredients have been done since ROC period, but they had a basic knowledge, they didn't add over 0.02%..those are toxic to degree. Back then, Yixing pottery was pretty organized.

But nowadays, the environment isn't organized, and money is a problem, since Yixing has become famous, *everyone* in Yixing started to make pottery, dream as if they were successful potters.

[kyarazen]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

[kyarazen]

Oh man... first I was reassured because of your words and now because of the "can be really dangerous" I am concerned about it again. So if most of the stuff out there isn't real yixing anymore some even dangerous and all the old evidences to proof if the clay is real or not are nowadays nullified because they are getting better and better in faking then how is it even possible to buy the real thing anymore and not a bunch of maybe poisoned crap stuff?

Oh man... this is quite depressing. And what are those ingredients which can be dangerous?

test it if you really want to be sure. anyone's guess is just as good.. as a guess. visually, photographically there is insufficient information unless you are an XPS or a raman spec. couple of years ago CNTV had some short episodes on yixing clay safety, had some secret filming in shops in beijing with the sales man bragging about the excellency of their pots, clays, how this material is heaven bestowed etc. the show went on to show lab tests on many pieces of yixing pots obtained from different source/shops, with a large percentage containing undesirable heavy metals. perhaps that short film is propaganda and all fiction, maybe it isnt...

if you read your tmall product's description, it even says the pot is made by a "ming jia" and fully hand made, of benshan lv ni, even with pictoral references etc. if all the "stars" align, what can be wrong about the pot?

[chrl42]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

[chrl42]

Oh man... first I was reassured because of your words and now because of the "can be really dangerous" I am concerned about it again. So if most of the stuff out there isn't real yixing anymore some even dangerous and all the old evidences to proof if the clay is real or not are nowadays nullified because they are getting better and better in faking then how is it even possible to buy the real thing anymore and not a bunch of maybe poisoned crap stuff?

Oh man... this is quite depressing. And what are those ingredients which can be dangerous?

test it if you really want to be sure. anyone's guess is just as good.. as a guess. visually, photographically there is insufficient information unless you are an XPS or a raman spec. couple of years ago CNTV had some short episodes on yixing clay safety, had some secret filming in shops in beijing with the sales man bragging about the excellency of their pots, clays, how this material is heaven bestowed etc. the show went on to show lab tests on many pieces of yixing pots obtained from different source/shops, with a large percentage containing undesirable heavy metals. perhaps that short film is propaganda and all fiction, maybe it isnt...

if you read your tmall product's description, it even says the pot is made by a "ming jia" and fully hand made, of benshan lv ni, even with pictoral references etc. if all the "stars" align, what can be wrong about the pot?

I know that documentary from CCTV, it really swayed the Yixing market, the price of quality Yixing teapot arose X3 since that documentary. I even think, that documentary was encouraged by the goverment of Yixing.

Because that made people think, quality-Yixings are the only source where we can drink it a safer environment. That documentary was about dissing low-priced Yixings with untrustful sources.


So..what do you think? is it unreliable chemical ingredient or natural clays? if latter, then the danger of using should apply to ALL of claywares don't you think? (including Teachat artisans')

[bagua7]

Don't worry too much, that pot is fine, made of Yixing clay. I'd be worried about using something like this as it would make the tea undrinkable :

http://images.goemerchant.net/storedata ... upload.jpg

Looks like a pot made by Willy Wonka.

Btw, your reaction is a result of Cha Qi acting on your liver, quite normal in our modern society. Call it part of a good cleansing effect.

[kyarazen]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

then... zhuni should be poisonous by this definition....

since its natural iron oxide content is quite high

[chrl42]

"cobalt oxide, chrome oxide, iron oxide and manganese oxide."

exists as natural ores, rocks, etc, its in nature, its in many clays, some as trace compounds too...

Still poisonous

then... zhuni should be poisonous by this definition....

since its natural iron oxide content is quite high

Yea, but it's 'natural'.

But those oxide powders being poisonous is quite obvious, especially chrome's. As researches show, eating them might cause to death..