Some questions on Taiwanese mountain oolong

[beanbag]

Hello folks,

I am new to this kind of tea. I've tried a few different kinds, such as

From a local tea shop run by a Taiwanese guy and his wife:
Organic high peak green oolong
Ah Lee peak oolong

From Mountaintea.com
Li mountain spring
Li mountain winter
Green Jin Xua oolong
Heritage Honey oolong

The problem is that they all taste about the same to me, namely this kind of characteristic grassy, green leafy vegetable, extra virgin olive oil taste. When I read the descriptions, I see terms like fruits, honey, citrus, peach, etc etc, and I detect none of these at all.

The best I have had so far was a Taiwanese colleague gave me a few grams in a zip lock bag some Li mountain stuff he had laying around. That one actually tasted like sweet butter and had a rich smell and mouthfeel. Still no fruit, but ok, whatever.

The "worst" so far was BaoZhong from mountaintea that kinda tasted like boiled spinach water.

The smallest pot I have is a Hario QSM-1, which holds 250ml max, but I have done brews where I put in about 5g of tea, add about 120ml of almost boiling water (or lower temperature water also), and wait about 1 minute or so. (Never was able to get enough taste when trying to do 30 second steepings) To me, the overall taste doesn't change that much with brew style - for example, at lab I have a Hario 350ml pot where I also put in about 5g, add hot water, wait a few minutes, and then dump out. This is good for about 2 steepings.

So either I am doing something wrong, or maybe these teas just aren't that great after all? Now that I think about it, the guy at the local tea store was kind enough to serve me some samples, prepared in those little clay teapots, and I don't remember much fruit taste either.

Some other questions / comments:
1) I read here that after opening a vacuum-packed tea, I am supposed to let it air out for a few days? I left a few grams out overnight, and the next day, they still tasted about the same. Maybe the butter taste increased a little? Dunno.

2) After I pour out the tea after one steeping, are the damp leaves just supposed to sit in the empty pot steaming and cooling until I pour in the next batch of water several minutes later? I took off the lid to take a smell, and MAN! Those damp leaves have this gross wet rag over-cooked leafy vegetable smell. I don't think too much of that smell gets into the liquid, but I can detect a little of it.

3) I'm not that worried about the taste differences from one little cup to the next (at this point), so what is the difference if I brew a big batch at once, or brew a bunch of little batches one after another and dump all the individual infusions into a big cup. Blasphemy! At least the leaves don't sit around steaming...

4) Since I have a glass teapot, I can see that for the first infusion, the tea bundles are covered with a layer of small bubbles, so maybe that would be inhibiting the steep? If I do an initial rinse, then this effect is reduced.

[BW85]

Hello folks,

I am new to this kind of tea. I've tried a few different kinds, such as

From a local tea shop run by a Taiwanese guy and his wife:
Organic high peak green oolong
Ah Lee peak oolong

From Mountaintea.com
Li mountain spring
Li mountain winter
Green Jin Xua oolong
Heritage Honey oolong

The problem is that they all taste about the same to me, namely this kind of characteristic grassy, green leafy vegetable, extra virgin olive oil taste. When I read the descriptions, I see terms like fruits, honey, citrus, peach, etc etc, and I detect none of these at all.

The best I have had so far was a Taiwanese colleague gave me a few grams in a zip lock bag some Li mountain stuff he had laying around. That one actually tasted like sweet butter and had a rich smell and mouthfeel. Still no fruit, but ok, whatever.

The "worst" so far was BaoZhong from mountaintea that kinda tasted like boiled spinach water.

The smallest pot I have is a Hario QSM-1, which holds 250ml max, but I have done brews where I put in about 5g of tea, add about 120ml of almost boiling water (or lower temperature water also), and wait about 1 minute or so. (Never was able to get enough taste when trying to do 30 second steepings) To me, the overall taste doesn't change that much with brew style - for example, at lab I have a Hario 350ml pot where I also put in about 5g, add hot water, wait a few minutes, and then dump out. This is good for about 2 steepings.

So either I am doing something wrong, or maybe these teas just aren't that great after all? Now that I think about it, the guy at the local tea store was kind enough to serve me some samples, prepared in those little clay teapots, and I don't remember much fruit taste either.

Some other questions / comments:
1) I read here that after opening a vacuum-packed tea, I am supposed to let it air out for a few days? I left a few grams out overnight, and the next day, they still tasted about the same. Maybe the butter taste increased a little? Dunno.

2) After I pour out the tea after one steeping, are the damp leaves just supposed to sit in the empty pot steaming and cooling until I pour in the next batch of water several minutes later? I took off the lid to take a smell, and MAN! Those damp leaves have this gross wet rag over-cooked leafy vegetable smell. I don't think too much of that smell gets into the liquid, but I can detect a little of it.

3) I'm not that worried about the taste differences from one little cup to the next (at this point), so what is the difference if I brew a big batch at once, or brew a bunch of little batches one after another and dump all the individual infusions into a big cup. Blasphemy! At least the leaves don't sit around steaming...

4) Since I have a glass teapot, I can see that for the first infusion, the tea bundles are covered with a layer of small bubbles, so maybe that would be inhibiting the steep? If I do an initial rinse, then this effect is reduced.

Is this your first venture into loose leaf tea?
The more tea you drink the more sensitive your palate will become, and you will start noticing differences between these similar teas. You will also start to pick up on the more subtle notes. Just like I don't indulge in fine wines so I wouldn't be able to taste much if any difference between two similar bottles of wine, though a wino could.

1. Taking tea out of a vacuum packed bag and brewing right away will usually give the tea a thin texture/mouth feel. Letting it breath will help to thicken the liquor.

2. Some people leave the lid on, some take it off between infusions, but yeah they can just sit there until your next cup, whether that's 5 minutes later or a couple hours

3. Some people do that. To fill up a thermos or the likes

4. Rinsing or blanching the leaves is personal preference

[beanbag]

This isn't my first time with loose leaf tea, but the first time trying out these high mountain teas and purposely brewing in a small pot.

One other idea is if anybody could recommend a blatantly fruity / floral high mountain tea that is <$8 / oz and can be bought from a distributor in the United States.

[bilochun]

sounds like you would like the more heavily roasted oolongs

[wyardley]

The quality of the tea may be part of it. While you should be able to get by with water that's just off the boil, if you're not liking the results with a particular tea, I'd try babying the tea a little more, by using slightly cooler water. I have the best luck with a small, thin-wall gaiwan, but you can try reducing the water temperature with any brewing device.

A tea that's very slightly more oxidized than the neon-green stuff may also help. Shiuwen from Floating Leaves carries gaoshan teas that tend to run more to my personal taste, often with less vegetal flavor profiles.

[wyardley]

Also, the types of teas you like are pretty sought after (not so much in the US as in Taiwan, Mainland China, etc.), and there are only a small number of vendors focusing on the US market that carry good examples of the genre. It may not be impossible to get genuine and good quality high mountain oolong within your price range, but I think it may be difficult.

Lower altitude stuff may be a better bet for getting something that has the type of taste you're looking for. I am not sure that heavily roasted teas would be what you're looking for so much, but you may like higher oxidation teas with a low roast, things like dong ding, maybe even gui fei (concubine) oolong.

[beanbag]

I did also get a moderately roasted TGY from my Taiwanese colleague, and that was pretty good, albeit very different. I would just like to experience that "green + fruits" taste that everybody else keeps talking about.

How much do I need to spend here?

[BW85]

I did also get a moderately roasted TGY from my Taiwanese colleague, and that was pretty good, albeit very different. I would just like to experience that "green + fruits" taste that everybody else keeps talking about.

How much do I need to spend here?

The fruit notes are probably in the teas you have, they just might not be super obvious like you would get from flavored teas. Try using lower temp water

More expensive tea won't necessarily taste that much different, but rather feel different

[beanbag]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I did try playing around with the water temperature. The main thing I noticed was that very hot water increased the buttery sensation, but colder water just made it take longer before the leaves started opening up.

I also purposely left a few grams out in the open for a day and a half, and that didn't seem to make much of a difference.

[ABx]

Taiwanese oolong tends to do well with higher temps, as long as you don't oversteep.

If it was vacuum sealed then it will definitely need to acclimate. You could open the tin and mix up the leaf a bit once a day for a few days, but maybe just easier to put it in the tin, close the tin, leave it for a few days, and understand that the first couple of pots won't be the best. (It'll be hard for all the tea to get air when it's in a foil bag, like the vacuum pack bags. You could use a jar, if need be, but I don't know about long-term; especially if transparent.)

If it's a greener tea, I wouldn't leave it out in the open air for more than about 36 hours before using (but overnight might not be enough). However, straight out of a vacuum pack, a tea may not be very good for the first few days/pots no matter what you do.

There's a lot of commercial grade tea out there, though; it's possible that it's just not a real quality tea. Once hydrated, are the leaves whole and thick? The more ragged/broken and thin, the lower the quality (not that all whole-leaf, hand harvested, high-mountain stuff is great). That stuff might actually be more satisfying when brewed with little leaf and lots of water -- like any grocery store tea, although a commercial grade one will probably still be better than what you'd find in a grocery store here (in the west).

Edit: I've never had tea from Mountain Tea, but it *looks* half way decent, at least. It's hard to really say much when you haven't had it, and aren't there in person.

If you want something nice at a low price then the Four Seasons oolong from Floating Leaves Tea makes a good starter -- Four Seasons (Siji Chun/Si Ji Chun/Sijichun) tends to have more taste, straight-forward aroma, and is usually pretty forgiving in brewing, so it's a good one to begin with in general.

Floating Leaves would be a good place to get from, though, just because people will know it, and be able to give you more targeted advice. Hopefully, though, the issues you have with your current tea will just clear up and that will be that

Also, what are you using for water? Bottled purified (or distilled) water won't do you much good, but bottled spring water usually can (read the label carefully). Filtered tap water may or may not be any good, depending. Never use straight tap water, though.

[beanbag]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding water. I got some Arrowhead spring water, along with a Bonavita kettle. This seems to give the tea a bit of a smoother, sweeter taste. The flavor seems a bit less complex, but at least the flavors that got diminished are ones I didn't like anyway, like some kind of boiled leafy greens and a not-quite chlorine / plastic taste. Still no fruits, but an overall improvement.

The leaves mostly look ok. Occasionally there is a chunk missing, or a little tear, or a brown spot, but definitely better than the reject-looking leaves from David's Tea flavored oolongs. I dunno about thickness, but maybe less thick than the tea my Taiwanese colleague gave me.

Right now, I am keeping the tea in the 2 oz sample foil bags they came in. Whenever I open the bag, I give it a little shake to stir in some air, but then I roll over the excess bag and put a rubber band over it.

[ABx]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding water. I got some Arrowhead spring water, along with a Bonavita kettle. This seems to give the tea a bit of a smoother, sweeter taste. The flavor seems a bit less complex, but at least the flavors that got diminished are ones I didn't like anyway, like some kind of boiled leafy greens and a not-quite chlorine / plastic taste. Still no fruits, but an overall improvement.

You might try some other waters; I seem to recall not caring for Arrowhead. Volvic is a safe bet. Ideally you want something with a balanced level of minerals (e.g., Evian is a bit hard for most tea, although it works with dancong).

You won't notice "fruity" notes the same way as you would with a highly oxidized or flavored tea. It would be mostly buttery and floral, however there are some nuances that are hard to describe otherwise. Some gaoshan can have a strong citrus note in the aroma (like lemon), but would still be in the background.

You could always try glass brewing (sometimes people around here call it 'grandpa style'). Just put a couple grams in the bottom of a big mug/glass, pour in boiling water, and let sit for a couple of mins before drinking off the top (most of the leaf will stay at the bottom). It's an easy way to get pretty good results, and at the least it can give you a baseline.

[beanbag]

I did try one other water - Crystal Geyser, and the main difference is that it doesn't leave scale when boiling unlike the Arrowhead. But it seems taste is about the same.

AT the moment, I can notice the amount of butter taste and sweet taste, and sometimes a little taste of "something else". That taste is in the first one or two infusions, when the liquid color still looks a little bit green, and then goes away in later infusions when the liquid becomes more yellow.

I guess it will take more practice. There's still a lot of variables to play around with, like water temperature, steep time, how long the dried tea leaves have been sitting around, etc.

I never got good at tasting wines, btw.

[greenteaOG]

have anyone tried adding butter to their cup of tea?

[Rui]

have anyone tried adding butter to their cup of tea?

That reminds me of the Tea Horse Road and Tibetan tea. Aparently it has quite a strong taste.