I've been researching quite a bit for the last 7 years on Yixing teapots. I've generally accepted the idea that they absorb flavor and enhance each successive cup of tea. However, I have never seen conclusive evidence apart from my own teapot forming a Patina. Even so, a Patina is a thin layer that variously forms on the surface of stone. What about the pores of yixing teapots?
Furthermore, today I have gone on a lengthy journey trying to reach a conclusion to the assumption that yixing teapots age. I've read that they age by appearance from many websites. Yet, a book written by Robert J. and Mary Lou Heiss called “The Story of Tea: A Cultural History and Drinking Guide.” explains that:
“...the color of the teapot does not fade or change, and the clay does not impart or retain any odor… the surface of the teapots gain a fine patina with repeated use.”
So far I have contradictory findings. Another indication of an aging Yixing teapot is the sheen or gloss that becomes more pronounced and a color that becomes more intense. However, some websites say that handling causes the sheen whereas others claim the oils of the tea permeate through the pot. I've reached out to Stephane of the Tea Masters blog and am waiting for a reply.
Anyone have any conclusive evidence on the fact that Yixings age overtime? How about evidence that supports the fact that Yixings absorb flavor overtime? Not seasoned by patina, but seasoned through absorption**
Thoughts?
Re: Do Yixings really age?
flavour absorption on an yixing pot is a no-no........ at least in my opinion
and yes, yixing do age even if you dont use it. leave it on the shelf for 50 years, 100 years.. when you come back to it, there are changes already
it depends on the environment it is in
and yes, yixing do age even if you dont use it. leave it on the shelf for 50 years, 100 years.. when you come back to it, there are changes already
it depends on the environment it is inRe: Do Yixings really age?
How does it age, even without use? Why does it depend on the environment?
Re: Do Yixings really age?
It's a matter of semantics... Everything ages. Are your perhaps borrowing this usage from the calculated aging of teas such as pu'er? It's an analogy, sure, but I'm not sure if it can be stretched that wide. Framing these same questions without the aging part might elicit more thorough responses from our users. From what I'm understanding, what you are really asking is how far the interaction between tea oils and the pot goes? Well, I'm cautious with the traditional answers to this question, but it seems from the leaching of oils into water in older pots that they these oils do go beyond the surface, since this leaching is not dependent on visible patina. Whether it's advantageous or desirable for it to happen is something else. I also don't think it's accurate in any way to call the resulting broth "tea".
Perhaps your sources where referring to the fact that the outer patina results from an absorption on the surface only because it's a less porous area than the interior of the pot, given the higher intensity of the firing on the outside. I'm not sure about that though.
Answering as simply as possible, the building of patina absolutely happens, and the interior of the pot does absorb oils. I'm just not sure how customary it is to call this the "aging" of a pot.
Perhaps your sources where referring to the fact that the outer patina results from an absorption on the surface only because it's a less porous area than the interior of the pot, given the higher intensity of the firing on the outside. I'm not sure about that though.
Answering as simply as possible, the building of patina absolutely happens, and the interior of the pot does absorb oils. I'm just not sure how customary it is to call this the "aging" of a pot.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
That is a wonderful point. I must ask though, does the interior of the pot really absorb oils? I've been looking for evidence, but I haven't been able to really land on anything concrete. What about the change in glossy/shiny appearance? Is this a placebo affect? Do tea oils enhance this appearance overtime, or handling (i.e. a meerschaum pipe)?SlowOx wrote:Answering as simply as possible, the building of patina absolutely happens, and the interior of the pot does absorb oils. I'm just not sure how customary it is to call this the "aging" of a pot.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
haha! many reasonsSlowOx wrote:How does it age, even without use? Why does it depend on the environment?
aged ceramics, porcelain etc all lose mass and water. they become very light to handle, and brittle. whether soaked in water, on the land, or buried they all age differently.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
SlowOx wrote:That is a wonderful point. I must ask though, does the interior of the pot really absorb oils? I've been looking for evidence, but I haven't been able to really land on anything concrete. What about the change in glossy/shiny appearance? Is this a placebo affect? Do tea oils enhance this appearance overtime, or handling (i.e. a meerschaum pipe)?SlowOx wrote:Answering as simply as possible, the building of patina absolutely happens, and the interior of the pot does absorb oils. I'm just not sure how customary it is to call this the "aging" of a pot.
That change in appearance is the building of patina, and that happens beyond any reasonable doubt. Given enough building of the patina, it's not something visually subtle at all. Some pots don't build patina, however. Other users could chime in with the reasons. (Also, if the firing is high enough, and the exterior vitrifies, it's a given that the exterior will be impervious, but that's not usual for yixing.)
I'll leave the interior absorbption part to experts like kyarazen, though. They can provide much better answers.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
Fascinating. Do you know what temperature this would be? Perhaps the temperature varies with clays?kyarazen wrote:(Also, if the firing is high enough, and the exterior vitrifies, it's a given that the exterior will be impervious, but that's not usual for yixing.)
Re: Do Yixings really age?
yes, the interior does absorb smells and tea stains. if you scrub the interior of an old pot clean, and with it looking clean you immerse it into hot bicarbonate and let it cool overnight, there will be brown liquids coming out. these are the tea stains. good hongni has absorption of under 0.5% its weight, zini and qingshui that are well made hover around 1-2%. chaozhou ni goes up to 7-8 percent (except the modern ones that are iron loaded and the pots become rather "glassy).SlowOx wrote:
That is a wonderful point. I must ask though, does the interior of the pot really absorb oils? I've been looking for evidence, but I haven't been able to really land on anything concrete. What about the change in glossy/shiny appearance? Is this a placebo affect? Do tea oils enhance this appearance overtime, or handling (i.e. a meerschaum pipe)?
it wont be possible to expect tea when pouring hot water into a well seasoned pot, probably some hints of scent. it is like having tea go mouldy in a yixing pot and then desperately trying to get the musty moldy scent out, you can douse in some hot water into the pot and still be able to smell a bit of the damp notes.
as for the external patina, i have observed that there are a couple of main types. one type is soft patina, that is really tea stains, or skin oils, can be scratched off, the surface's mostly covered by stains and substances like a thin layer over it, smoothing it
the other type is hard patina, the surface still has clay particles visible but on the overall the pot looks glossy.
i like the latter type of patina development and thats what i've been trying to achieve
Re: Do Yixings really age?
Great info! bicarbonate as in baking soda? I'm very curious to know if this is a good way to restore a Yixing. What are your thoughts on that?SlowOx wrote:yes, the interior does absorb smells and tea stains. if you scrub the interior of an old pot clean, and with it looking clean you immerse it into hot bicarbonate and let it cool overnight, there will be brown liquids coming out.
I have a Yixing made of aged Duan Ni clay from the 1990's (I believe). The exterior is much more resistant to absorption it seems. It's glossy, whereas the interior is raw. I have seen the pores of the clay beneath the lid when steamed water collected beneath it but not atop the lid. I've very skeptical about anything I hear about Yixing. I'm very curious to experiment. It seems that a Yixing aging-- is really only semantics after all. It's simply that they cake with the past.
From your description of patinas it seems that the interior of my pot collects a soft patina whereas the outer wall of the pot develops a hard patina.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
Yup bicarbonate is excellent, but it will make tea brewed in the pot taste not so nice for a period of time before it returns to normal.
hydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
yep! experimentation is only the way to figure out things.
hydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
yep! experimentation is only the way to figure out things.
SlowOx wrote: Great info! bicarbonate as in baking soda? I'm very curious to know if this is a good way to restore a Yixing. What are your thoughts on that?
I have a Yixing made of aged Duan Ni clay from the 1990's (I believe). The exterior is much more resistant to absorption it seems. It's glossy, whereas the interior is raw. I have seen the pores of the clay beneath the lid when steamed water collected beneath it but not atop the lid. I've very skeptical about anything I hear about Yixing. I'm very curious to experiment. It seems that a Yixing aging-- is really only semantics after all. It's simply that they cake with the past.
From your description of patinas it seems that the interior of my pot collects a soft patina whereas the outer wall of the pot develops a hard patina.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
Do you mean to exhume from the pot walls or procure as in purchase?SlowOx wrote:hydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
harder to purchase!SlowOx wrote:Do you mean to exhume from the pot walls or procure as in purchase?SlowOx wrote:hydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
Is it hard to get in SG? It can be purchased at supermarkets here in the states. And I have used it successfully to clean a moldy pot, it does work greathydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
Re: Do Yixings really age?
diluted forms in pharmacies onlyBW85 wrote:Is it hard to get in SG? It can be purchased at supermarkets here in the states. And I have used it successfully to clean a moldy pot, it does work greathydrogen peroxide is good too but harder to procure.
they became sensitive/more controlled items after making into the list of "explosive precursors"