The taste power and financial value of Sencha leaves

[StavA]

Tea Masters-

I apologize in advance for the rudimentary nature of my questions.

In preparing different levels ($ wise) of sencha from different vendors it has been really interesting to see how some types have very full, bright green uniform leaves - while some other packages have a variety of rough and tumble leaves together with a mess of leaf fragments.

I understand that there is a clear correlation between sale price and to what extent the leaves are fully intact and clear of non-leaf materials. No doubt when one pours out a small pile of perfectly formed bright and clean green flowing leaves it's a really special sight to behold.

But there are a few other relationships here that are not so clear:

1) TASTE? Does a sencha with prettier and more complete leaves always taste better? I get the sense that, no, not necessarily - and that perhaps a bunch of leaf fragments my provide more equal if not more taste for the buck. Yes? No?

2) LEAF RATIO? It seems sencha with more complete leaves requires more tablespoons to brew a good batch. Yes (For example 1.25 grams per ounce for full leaves only as opposed to a mere .6 grams per ounce for a sencha mash of various plant particles.) Is this because there are fewer small bits to seep and potentially even dissolve into the water in the 'cleaner' sencha?

3) VALUE? And does this mean paradoxically that while there is a price premium on the physical beauty of the top tier sencha, the actual best tasting, and simultaneously more economical offering, are actually lower down the price pecking order?

Would greatly appreciate the perspective of experienced voices on the above.

My apologies in advance if the above is overly rudimentary of if I am re-trudging old territory / dead horses.

Stav

[Tead Off]

While taste is subjective, the higher end sencha teas do tend to be long and thin and relatively intact. The great stuff seems always to display this look but often, you need less leaf to brew them. Take for example, temomicha. It is sold in 3g packages. Put that into a 60-70ml shiboridashi or teapot and see what good is! These are expensive teas but you begin to see what is possible with sencha.

I would always prefer fuller, needle-like leaves. But this type, I think, can only be achieved on asamushi (light steamed) leaves. Deeper steaming tends to make the leaves fall apart but gives a different taste, some would say fuller.

Value is a subjective perception dependent on your own preferences and economic situation. I will say that the beauty of long needle-like senchas and the exquisiteness of refined flavor and umami are not present in most commercial teas. But these teas, perhaps are not meant for everyday drinking unless you can afford them. Very nice to experience once in awhile.

[StavA]

Ah, interesting point. I didn't realize that long solid leaves and Fukamushi don't come together.

I find it interesting that so far I have a strong preference for the taste of Asamushi. Maybe it's because the appearance of Asamushi has been creating a pre-tasting bias.

[chingwa]

Likely asamushi is simply better.

Don't get me wrong, I've had some really good fukamushi in the past, and for a couple years I actually preferred it, but my tastebuds have shifted back to asamushi (or futsumushi, to be snobbish about it ). In general you'll find a more varied and delicate flavor profile in the traditional steamed teas... not to mention a prettier leaf, and less kyusu-klogging!

[StavA]

Likely asamushi is simply better.

Personally I find asamushi much, much more enjoyable than the deep steamed. For me the strong flavor of the deep is just one booming note that drowns everything else out. Much more depth and surprises to be found in the lightly steamed stuff.

[Alex]

Likely asamushi is simply better.

Don't get me wrong, I've had some really good fukamushi in the past, and for a couple years I actually preferred it, but my tastebuds have shifted back to asamushi (or futsumushi, to be snobbish about it ). In general you'll find a more varied and delicate flavor profile in the traditional steamed teas... not to mention a prettier leaf, and less kyusu-klogging!

I think generally the more sencha you drink over the years the more you start to lean towards Asa. For me I loved Fuka more at the start. So in your face, but over the years I've come full to appreciate the balance and depth of Asa far more. Fuka just gives you everything in one big punch like a one night stand where Asa is more like a romance over time. I do still like the former..........Fuka that is...from time to time

[chingwa]

People talking in metaphors remind me of serial killers who (deep down) really want to get caught

[debunix]

This Asa fan finds that the nicer looking and especially nicer smelling Asa leaves tend to make me happiest brewed up hot into tea. I leave the less fancy and more broken up inexpensive senchas for cold-brewing.

[hobin]

this was one of the best sencha I've ever tried:
http://www.thes-du-japon.com/index.php? ... cts_id=184

as you can see it's just whole leaves, no bits. the taste is really complex, almost too much if you want a quicker tea to sip while you're doing other things... you have to give it the right space and time in order to appreciate it.

[StavA]

this was one of the best sencha I've ever tried:
http://www.thes-du-japon.com/index.php? ... cts_id=184

as you can see it's just whole leaves, no bits. the taste is really complex, almost too much if you want a quicker tea to sip while you're doing other things... you have to give it the right space and time in order to appreciate it.

That sencha looks and sounds incredible...but I am skeptical about the prices of thes du japon in general simply because their prices are so substantially higher than all the other online vendors.

Is their something really unique about their sencha or are they simply throwing the ball far and seeing what happens?

[chingwa]

I can attest to their quality. I've been getting the majority of my tea there for the last 3 years and the quality, honestly, is far better than any other vendor I've tried.

They go out of their way to offer interesting, perhaps "boutique" is the word, sencha not often available from other vendors. Even the lower-end offering are usually very good. (though I have had teas I didn't like now and then, just as with everywhere else. I've never had one that I thought was poor quality though).

The top-end teas are very expensive, and yet they are so because they are a league apart from other sencha available. Serious. It's hard to describe until you've tried them.

For a beginner or a casual fan of Japanese tea I would probably recommend a different shop, but for those who can appreciate the difference in quality I would definitely recommend Thes-du-japon over others. If you have an interest in Futsumushi(asamushi) especially Thes-du-japon should be your go-to shop.

[Tead Off]

this was one of the best sencha I've ever tried:
http://www.thes-du-japon.com/index.php? ... cts_id=184

as you can see it's just whole leaves, no bits. the taste is really complex, almost too much if you want a quicker tea to sip while you're doing other things... you have to give it the right space and time in order to appreciate it.

That sencha looks and sounds incredible...but I am skeptical about the prices of thes du japon in general simply because their prices are so substantially higher than all the other online vendors.

Is their something really unique about their sencha or are they simply throwing the ball far and seeing what happens?

The only way to answer that question is to buy the tea and determine if it suits you. There is no doubt that this vendor is high priced, but you just have to compare their tea to what you've had before to see if it worth the price. If you like their tea, I would suggest you compare it to Hirumaen's temomicha, their lower priced ones @ ¥324 in 3g packets. Or, if you're feeling flush, their higher priced temomicha @ 3g packets/¥1080. But, beware! You will never look at sencha the same way again.

[chingwa]

Also, to answer your original #3 question above about value... they say this about a lot of things, but when it comes to tea it may be more apt than others: You get what you pay for*.

There is a very large gulf between everyday tea and truly fine tea, and of course it takes some money and some experience to cross that gulf. We're somewhat lucky in the respect that most people, even most Japanese people, think green tea is something that comes in a teabag. For if more people knew what it was really like, and garnered an appreciation for high quality tea, we would likely be spending a LOT more for every 100 gram bag.

Once you gain an appreciation for good quality, paying less money for less quality ceases to be economical in the normal respect, since the less quality tea has even less enjoyment potential in it... in effect you start to feel like it's a complete waste of money.

Basically, the things that you enjoy in life are often worth the price you have to pay for them.

*assuming you're buying from a reputable vendor.

[sherubtse]

I would suggest you compare it to Hirumaen's temomicha, their lower priced ones @ ¥324 in 3g packets. Or, if you're feeling flush, their higher priced temomicha @ 3g packets/¥1080. But, beware! You will never look at sencha the same way again.

This may be relevant:

https://japaneseteasommelier.wordpress. ... t-saitama/

Best wishes,
sherubtse

[StavA]

Oh boy...It may have been a mistake for me to join this forum. Not sure that this ends well for my children's college savings plans.

An old professor of mine once said that when you get educated you are mainly expanding your ability to suffer. When you don't know what good music is anything sounds fine. But once your taste in music gets sophisticated common music playing in the supermarket or at a restaurant becomes annoying and even painful....