Aug 27th, '08, 13:33

Zojirushi worthless? Can't brew a good pot of tea.

by Deleted User #23939 » Aug 27th, '08, 13:33

I just bought a Zojirushi WBC30 to use for green and oolong teas. I have a Shogun cast iron teapot that I got at Teavana.

Ever since I got it, I have always had a hard time brewing tea with my cast iron teapot. Whenever I make tea, I have to steep it for 5 to 20. Green tea should not steep for more than 3 minutes, correct? I cannot think of any reason why it is taking so long to brew the tea. Any ideas?

It is even harder making tea with my water boiler. If I set the temperature for 175 and preheat the pot with that water , empty that water out, and then fill it up with more water that is 175, the water in the cast iron tea pot becomes about 140 degrees. It seems like the green tea setting in the water boiler is useless if I cannot get it to the correct temperature in the tea pot.

How does everyone get the correct temperature for teas with their water boiler and their cast iron teapot?

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Aug 27th, '08, 13:42
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by bronzebed » Aug 27th, '08, 13:42

oops, sorry

Aug 27th, '08, 14:44
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by Pentox » Aug 27th, '08, 14:44

It somewhat sounds like you're not preheating your cast iron enough. Cast iron takes quite a bit of heat to reach 175F, if your water temp is dropping to 140 it is still pulling heat out of your water to warm the pot. Try making sure your pot's temperature is equalizing with the water before switching it out.

IIRC the Shogun pot is flatter and wider than most, meaning more iron surface area to heat up as well. It also is going to cool down faster due to the increased surface area.

My suggestion would be to use hotter water in and let the pot cool the water down to the appropriate temp.

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Aug 27th, '08, 14:57
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by ABx » Aug 27th, '08, 14:57

Pentox beat me to it. I would try all the temperature settings and then take the temp of the water in the tetsubin for each. Most people just end up keeping the Zoji at 208 for pretty much the same reason. Also remember that the first couple/few ounces out of the Zoji will be cooler, as that's the water sitting in the dispensing tube instead of the heated pot.

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Aug 27th, '08, 15:41
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by Wesli » Aug 27th, '08, 15:41

Then the dispensing tube needs to preheat as well. Just switch the temp setting on the zoji to the next higher one. I keep mine at 208.

Aug 28th, '08, 23:09
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by devites » Aug 28th, '08, 23:09

More heat. Its easy to cool water down. Also oolongs normally need hotter water to leech all the flavor out. Try about 190 F. When you move water from one area to another your going to lose about 5 F.

Sep 5th, '08, 18:06

by Deleted User #23939 » Sep 5th, '08, 18:06

Thanks to everyone for the tips.

What is the point of owning an expensive water heater if you cannot use the appropriate settings on the heater to make tea? The heater has 3 temperature settings needed for the different varieties of tea. If I cannot use the green tea setting of 175 to make green tea then what good is it? Does anyone like their hot water dispenser and are you also having the same problems and having to steep a 1-3 minute tea for 5-15 minutes or is it just me?

I used the 195 setting to preheat the pot. When I put the 195 water in the pot the water turned to 125 degrees. I let it stand in there for 3 minutes then dumped the water and added 195 degree water. Then the water in the pot got to 145-150 degrees. I think I will have to try 208 degrees next to see if I can get it closer to 175. The problem is what will I have to do in order to make a tea that requires a hotter temperature such as oolong or even rooibos teas that requires 208. I don't think I would ever be able to reach a temperature of 208 in my Shogun teapot.

I wonder if I am having so much trouble because of the teapot the I am using. Does anyone else use a hot water dispenser and a cast iron teapot to make tea? Please tell me your experiences with that.

Sep 5th, '08, 18:27
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by Pentox » Sep 5th, '08, 18:27

The point of the water heater is to produce water at that specified temperature, and most likely it is doing just that.

The issue is not so much with your water heater as much as your pot. Cast iron pots take an immenese amount of heat in order to preheat. But because of that once it is preheated it will retain that heat for a longer period of time.

Cast iron pots are also well known for their ability to dissipate heat. Hence the small bumps on most tetsubin, this increases surface area and thusly exposure to air for cooling. I believe this is in some part due to times when water heaters were not available to the degree that a zoji is now. The temperature settings are a relatively new feature on a zoji. If you only had a traditional kettle (i.e. stovetop boiling) it would be ideal to use a tetsubin to make green tea, you would add boiling water to it and it would cool down to the right temp for green tea.

Most of us use our zojis for non-tetsubin brewing devices which don't require large amounts of heat to preheat. This takes advantage of the temperature regulation on the zoji.

Also when you are preheating your pot, are you stirring your water at all? where are you measuring your temperature at? If you were to just fill it with water and stick a thermometer to the bottom you might not be getting the best reading. Water close to the edge would adjust to the temperature of the pot where the water in the center would stay warm. Try stirring it some to redistribute the warm ater. And try measuring the temperature of the water in the center, not touching the sides.

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Sep 5th, '08, 20:45
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by Thirsty Daruma » Sep 5th, '08, 20:45

An introduction to chemistry course and a study of energy transfer (heat and kinetic) will make everything lucid.

Sep 5th, '08, 21:05

by Deleted User #23939 » Sep 5th, '08, 21:05

What do people use to make tea with a water heater? What works well that will retain its temperature after the water is poured? What are some alternative teamaking vessels that will work well with a water heater and has a spout and can work with a tea warmer?

My goal is to be able to make tea without having to steep it for 10 minutes. I just made some green Sencha and it took 9 minutes for it to steep. I made sure the the water was 170 degrees when I put the filter in. I washed the filter in room temperature water right before I put it in that probably lowered the temperature of the water in the teapot. After 9 minutes of steeping I took out the filter and the water was about 145. So the water probably cooled to about 150-160 when I put the colder filter in the teapot. Is 150-160 a high enough temperature for steeping Sencha?

I brought my teapot to a Teavana to see if they could brew tea with the proper steep time. They were able to fully brew my tea in 1.50 minutes. They were using hotter water then I was before but now I have increased the temperature of my water and made sure that preheated my teapot. It still takes me forever to brew tea.

Am I the only person in the world that is having the problem with taking 3 to 4 times longer to steep tea than it is supposed to? I would think this would be a common problem, but I could not really find any records of this problem on the internet. I must be cursed or something.

Your probably right about how the water heater is not good to use with cast iron. Tomorrow, I will try to boil water in a tea kettle and see if I have more success with that.

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Sep 5th, '08, 22:09
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by silverneedles » Sep 5th, '08, 22:09

170F + green tea + 10 minutes?
most i did is like 30 minutes with room temp water ~75F

how much leaf are you using ?

Sep 5th, '08, 22:22

by Deleted User #23939 » Sep 5th, '08, 22:22

I have a 16oz pot so I use 2 teaspoons. The actual temperature was probably 150-155F because of the colder infuser that I put in.

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Sep 5th, '08, 22:27
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by silverneedles » Sep 5th, '08, 22:27

16oz is alot of water...

i use a tablespoon or about 5g tea for 4 to 8 oz depending on time 1 - 3 min

you either need to use alot more tea with alot shorter time or use alot less water

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Sep 5th, '08, 22:51
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by Geekgirl » Sep 5th, '08, 22:51

Even for western brewing you should be using at least a teaspoon per 6 ounces of water, depending upon the type of tea. If it is an open-leaf tea you should be using up to twice that amount.

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Sep 5th, '08, 23:02
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by silverneedles » Sep 5th, '08, 23:02

i never got the tsp/tbsp measure ...

i just measured mine now:

my 'standard' tablespoon measure cup yields 5.5g sencha (to the border flat, no hump)

a plastic teaspoon yields 3g sencha (flat, no hump)

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