How to identify Yixing construction methods?

[t4texas]

I think this question has been partly addressed in other topics, but I am still not clear as to whether or not I can discern how a pot was made by looking at it. My understanding from one post by Charles (can't find it now, sorry) is that there are four basic methods:

1) entirely by hand, no templates
2) by hand, using templates
3) by hand using a potter's wheel
4) slip cast, liquified clay poured into molds, then assembled.

So a few questions:

1) Is there a way to tell if a pot is entirely hand made?
2) What are templates and how are they used?
3) What signs would indicate a potter's wheel was used?
4) What signs would indicate slip cast?
5) I have a pot or two that show a faint seam from the bottom of the handle down to the base and from the spout down to the base. What does that say about construction method?
6) Some of my pots are quite smooth inside, some show concentric circles and some show lines that radiate out from the center. What do these mean?

7) Any other clues as to how pots are made?

[chrl42]

Charles here,

I feel responsible for this post since I was the one who said that.
In hopes of no further dispute or bashing, I will write it quick and simple.


1) Is there a way to tell if a pot is entirely hand made?
- Inside usually has a stamp on the wall, also a joint line of a handle, shrinkage lines as it is warped.

2) What are templates and how are they used?
- http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/etixSZw0JBg/
See what templates they use.

3) What signs would indicate a potter's wheel was used?
- horizental lines as it is wheeled.

4) What signs would indicate slip cast?
- no indications, just sloppy finish and crafting.

5) I have a pot or two that show a faint seam from the bottom of the handle down to the base and from the spout down to the base. What does that say about construction method?
- you have any pics?

6) Some of my pots are quite smooth inside, some show concentric circles and some show lines that radiate out from the center. What do these mean?
- have a pic?

7) Any other clues as to how pots are made?
- not now I can think of, I will update as somethin comes around.

[Salsero]

Are very many pots made on a wheel? My impression is that doing them on a wheel is very rare ... can anyone estimate a percentage?

[chrl42]

Are very many pots made on a wheel? My impression is that doing them on a wheel is very rare ... can anyone estimate a percentage?

Local tells me pots under 100 Yuan (15 USD) are all either wheel-made or slip-cast.

So that makes pots over 100 Yuan genuine, unless seller is dishonerable or not knowing currency..

As for wheel vs slip-cast, I'd give more percentage for wheel but I might be wrong.

[Salsero]

But making them on a wheel looks like it requires great skill and slip cast doesn't seem to require much skill at all.

[chrl42]

But making them on a wheel looks like it requires great skill and slip cast doesn't seem to require much skill at all.

But wheel-making gives a pot more perfection in looking so it's harder to go wrong with a pouring test(often done in yixing stores) that makes customers want to buy. So it costs slightly more than slip-cast.

[taitea]

1) Is there a way to tell if a pot is entirely hand made?
- Inside usually has a stamp on the wall, also a joint line of a handle, shrinkage lines as it is warped.

This sounds like it could be a pretty good "test" since I don't think I've encountered any pots that had stamps *inside* them. I'd like to see some pictures of such a case if anyone has any.

Any clues on how to tell if the clay is authentic would be helpful in this discussion as well. I personally don't really care that much about how my pots are made, but it would be nice to know that they're made of the real absorbent stuff that will help my tea taste better, not worse.

[t4texas]

Thanks for the clarification, Charles. This is helpful.

I think your $15 USD figure fits the pots I have at $12 - $15 as being either made on a wheel or slipcast, but they do not look sloppily made. However, the ones I have seen below $12 are sloppy or crude and the clay looks inferior.

I have not had much luck with photo quality given my digital point-and-shoot, but I may give it another try. Even if more successful, I am not sure I can get a pic that will show the faint seams I mentioned - I just looked for them and had trouble seeing them clearly. Faint.

Interesting video of using templates. So a template is a matter of using a type of mold. Rather than the way I was referring to slip cast as a mold. I have several that I think were made this way. It looks like the tool she is using inside the pot would make some tool marks. Is that correct, or are they smoothed out?

For the entirely hand made ones, can you clarify further what you mean by "a joint line of a handle"? Also where would I see the "shrinkage lines"?

[t4texas]

But making them on a wheel looks like it requires great skill and slip cast doesn't seem to require much skill at all.

But wheel-making gives a pot more perfection in looking so it's harder to go wrong with a pouring test(often done in yixing stores) that makes customers want to buy. So it costs slightly more than slip-cast.

I think I may have contributed to a little confusion regarding the term "wheel". From Charles informative post, it appears there are two kinds of wheels. 1) A turntable like the one in the video showing the use of templates or molds, and 2) a faster turning potter's wheel used to shape the pot using one's hands. Is that it, Charles?

[t4texas]

After posting today I went to The Chinese Teapot Gallery store and discussed these questions while looking at six pots I had been considering recently. What I refer to above as concentric rings inside a pot are indeed the sign of a potter's wheel, once foot-pedaled, now electric powered.

I have one pot that has the concentric circles, the rest are hand-made using templates. Most of the latter are smooth inside, at least one has the markings of a tool used with the templates.

Also have one small pot that may, emphasis on may, be competely hand-made. It has a stamp on the inside bottom of the pot and the red clay is clearly better than the one that was made on an electric potter's wheel. It came with a certificate. I think it's the only one I have with a stamp inside, but I have not looked thoroughly.

Took two pots home today. The best quality ones of the six. One of about 80 ml, the other about 130 ml - both black clay. Clays are much more of a mystery to me than construction methods, but the black clay on these two looks very good. The best way I can describe it is to say it has some depth, the surface is not perfectly smooth so it has the mark of being made by a human hand, and it has a clear, high-pitched ring. Zu Ni? If not, what? I started an initial seasoning tonight using an Oolong, but not sure yet exactly what I will dedicated each pot to.

[MarshalN]

I think the use of a stamp on the inside wall is a fairly recent practice -- I've never seen older pots have that....

[Salsero]

Took two pots home today.

If you don't mind the question, how much did they cost?

I think we need to organize a field trip to Teapot Gallery.

[chrl42]

I think the use of a stamp on the inside wall is a fairly recent practice -- I've never seen older pots have that....

Nice observation, actually I am not that knowledgible about hand-made pots.

I think there are more traits of joint lines(spout, lid etc..) and one thing to add is waves of inside, caused by smashing of tools.

The best idea to get from hand-making perhaps is actually to see a person hand-making in real, or to make by oneself.


To t4texas, right.

[t4texas]

Took two pots home today.

If you don't mind the question, how much did they cost?

I think we need to organize a field trip to Teapot Gallery.

These only cost $12 each. They were not on the website and even if they were, it would be impossible to tell the difference between them and similar ones of lesser quality without holding them in your hands and looking very carefully...while asking lots of questions. I am only slowly getting a sense of these things and I have probably spent a few days worth of hours in their store trying to understand these pots. His English is a lot better than my Chinese - which is nothing. My pronunciation must be laughable, because I'll try to pronounce something like "Duan Ni" and he will look quite puzzled. Lately he has gotten better at guessing what I am trying to say, and we have taken to writing the English letters on a wall with our fingers. I should mention that some of the ones I have gotten, maybe most of them, are ones that they had too few of them to bother with listing them on their site. And I think there have been a lot of pots at the store that were never, ever sold on the site.

No more store. They have just about finished moving everything to another warehouse and there will be no walk in retail. Website only after the first of October.

All that said, if you are ordering from their website, I think you will do okay and be pleased if you are ordering a simple, traditional design pot in the 90 - 130/150 ml range if you are paying at least $12 plus shipping. It may be made on an electric wheel or it may be hand-made with templates, but it is likely to look good and be serviceable. If you are getting one that is a fancier design, it may be made of clay that is not quite as good; I think you are better off with ones that cost at least a little more than the $12 - 15 range in order to get one that has better carving, etching, details.

I have now bought about 14 pots from him and don't really have any buyer's remorse or regret. Out of all those there are maybe three that I would not buy again, but nothing wrong with them, just a matter of evolving knowledge and taste. I have looked at this as a relatively safe way to learn about Yixing pots; I would rather make some mistakes at $12 - 25 per pot than at $75 - $200...or more. I have chipped the lids of two through freak accidents and that I really regret, even though the chips are tiny or out of sight and the pots are still useable.

I ordered one of the $55 DHP pots from Scott at YSLLC and am interested to see if I am 4 - 5 X more pleased. They look very nice to me, so I am looking forward to its arrival.

[t4texas]

Here are photos of one of the $12 black pots from Chinese Teapot Gallery and the $55 DHP clay pot from YSLLC. (Apologies for the two fuzzy ones.)

Both were hand-made using templates (molds). The DHP came attractively presented in a beautiful box with a silk (?) cloth around it (I think someone else here has a photo of this for their DHP pot). It has the artist's stamp and signature on the exterior bottom of the pot and a stamp on the inside wall of the pot as well as the lid and came with a certificate. The certificate, however, was a little cruder marketing piece than others I have. The DHP is slightly, but noticeably, heavier construction - thicker body wall.

I think that the fact there is a stamp inside the DHP pot, which used some molding/template in its construction, says that a stamp inside does not necessarily indicate a pot was made entirely by hand with no use of molding.

The CTPG black pot has the artist's stamp on the exterior bottom and in the lid. No certificate, of course. It came with a presentation box - not nearly as nice as the DHP - only because I picked it up at the store; I know for these inexpensive pots that CTPG usually ships them with no presentation box because of the shipping cost. I assume if you wanted to pay a little extra they would add a box. I should note that while the black pot looks straight black at first glance, in the right light I can see a shimmer of purple-brown in the black.








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I like both of these pots. Is one worth 4 - 5 times more than the other? That's pretty much a personal decision. But if I was just beginning to drink Yixing waters, I would not feel compelled to spend $55 to get started. On the other hand, the DHP pot and presentation are beautiful and given an artist with even some minor reputation and a certificate, who knows, it may actually appreciate in value over time. You do not have to spend $55, however, to get a pot with a certificate. I am not sorry I bought it, whether or not it appreciates, since I bought it for tea brewing.

I have done a 2 1/2 day initial seasoning of the black one and the DHP arrived just two days ago, so I have done nothing to it. I think both should make very good tea, so I'll have to wait to see what works best with each. I'm open to suggestions, of course.